Suitability of ZBrush for organic sculptures to be CNC carved

[jrussellred]

I'm new to zbrush but stumbled across the site while searching for a 3d tool that would be suitable for producing 3d models from which to create ceramic tile molds.

We have CAM software that can take 3d models such as 3ds, dxf and stl formats and we can generate the code that will allow us to feed to our CNC machine and thus make an actual model of the drawing.

For us, our work is really a blend between full 3d and 2.5d in that we have high reliefs but the back is always just a flat plane (the back of the tile).

We have evaluated other 3d tools but they all seem weak in their ability to add a lot of the really organic details. ZBrush's discussion of hand carving tools and some of the models I found posted gave me hope that ZBrush might be able to do what we need.

I have two questions: 1) Would Zbrush be a good tool for this? and 2) If so, I would be interested in finding someone that is skilled in it's use for hire to create a sample model for us so that we could actually try out such a project.

I'm including a photo of a typical design that we'd like to create digitally. The attached photo shows a model that was actually carved from clay but there are big advantages to us if we can create these digitally, instead of from actual clay (ability to resize, etc.).

Any feedback Zbrush users could provide would be very much appreciated. Carrot.jpg

Jeff Russell
Vision Ceramics
jrussell@visionceramics.com

[Jason Belec]

Hello jrussellred, welcome to the community, someone posted something similar awhile back - trying to do it.

It really isn't that hard, I have had several models made into toys for my desk through a couple of processes - for characters I have created for shows. What you want is in essence simpler, but can be quite detailed.

If your software can take an OBJ or DXF created from an OBJ you should have no trouble at all.

If you want, you can get in touch with me directly through the email link attached to my name here

[andreseloy]

ZBrush 2 is really a wonderful software and certainly you can make almost everything with it¡
Here is a test model not reworked from your image....
You are looking for a model similar to your photo?



Thanks for your attention
Andreseloy

[jrussellred]

Is the picture you attached a model of the image I attached? If so I'm amazed that you could create it so quickly!

The image you attached is very close to what we'd want except that the carrots would need to be better defined and a higher relief.

We have need for two things - at times we want to pretty closely reproduce a design we have or have seen and at other times we want to create entirely new models (which would allow the artist a lot of creativity). With new work we try and define what we're looking for and then let the artist take over and drive the project.

If you'd be interested in possibly doing some work like this I would be interested in talking with you.

Jeff

[The Namek]

here's my try , and a side profile
alphatest.jpg (javascript:zb_insimg('6000','alphatest.jpg',1,0))

[andreseloy]

Is a model make from your image...ZB is amazing you can do everything¡¡¡
To me is the best program¡
This one is a quick test in perspective and some color¡
Andreseloy

[Jeff Galloway]

This could be very useful to you...

How to make normal maps (and displacement maps) from photographs...

http://www.zarria.net/

[jrussellred]

I looked at the link you provided and the wood carving is very similar to some of the stuff we do.

To ask a newbie question it seems that the inference to be drawn from this is that this displacement map could then be used in Zbrush to create the model? Is this right?

Thanks,
Jeff

[Jeff Galloway]

You: "To ask a newbie question it seems that the inference to be drawn from this is that this displacement map could then be used in Zbrush to create the model? Is this right?"

Yes - Zbrush or any package that supports displacement to geometry.

You could then take the geometry to a 3dprinter and have a hard copy made for a mold etc...

[andreseloy]

1.-RyanClark have a smart method that Jeff right now mentioned¡
2.-Specially ZB can pick up both the alpha and the texture from any photo.
3.-Here is the process one of the way ZB to make a carrot model

Thanks for your attention

Andreseloy

[jantim]

I could not resist in turning your design into an old coin....using the " make 3D from Alpha" function in Zbrush !

metal carrot.jpg

jantim

[andreseloy]

Carrot Scene Jeff.jpg

Andreseloy

[jrussellred]

You can always tell how good a software package is by how active the community around it is - ZBrush must be a winner because it's community is unbelievable. All of the samples so far have been incredible. As we move forward with this project I'll post back and hopefully have some real world products to show as the end result.

[Bonecradle]

One thing to note is that to get good detail, models would probably need to have quite alot of polygons. The question would then be, can your CAM software deal with that, or is it also able to generate the data using displacement maps.

If you are still looking for someone to put something together for you to try, then I'd be happy to give it a try. This would be the nearest thing I have done (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=4782&highlight=tweehouse) to what you seem to want (this was done in a previous version that wasn't able to generate anywhere near the detail of the current one).

[Bas Mazur]

We want more!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeff Galloway]

Very cool.

Makes me want to go get a salad!

[Steevo]

Jeff:

Here is a sample render in .stl file format of a mesh generated in ZBrush and exported to Rhino 3d for conversion to .stl format. I started with some simple detail to see how the workflow would progress. Much more detail can be added.

The two tiles are 8 in. square and 4 in. square and 3/8 in. thick in real world dimensions. I rescaled the 8 in tile to get the 4 in tile in about .005 seconds.

ZBrush and Rhino are a value packed combo.

Email me back and we can talk.

Cheers. Final Tile Render.jpg

[jrussellred]

Very nice. I'm just fixing to step out for a while and will contact you later today and we'll see if we can't get the samples and see if we can carve them (I'm pretty sure we can).

Just as a reference point how long did it take to create the samples?

[recoveringnurbsaddict]

I agree. Rhinocam and ZBrush are a very powerful combo. I have had Rhino and Rhinocam for 6 years. I had learned a few tricks to do organic objects in Rhino, any model in Rhinocam will carve great. I think the real question here is not the suitabilty of ZBrush for CNC work; rather, the suitability of any other software for creating organic objects to CNC. I am still very new to zbrush, but plan on investing a great deal of energy to learning this software. With ZBrush, the only limit to what I can carve is now my creativity. Here is an image of one of my products. I used ZBrush to sculpt the Wolf head, and imported it to Rhino as an OBJ file.
283617283618

[recoveringnurbsaddict]

Couple more pics. This item measures 12" x 15" x 1.5" in the real world. The skull and arms were made in ZBrush, and imported to Rhino for carving.
283749


283750

[Sigmund Hentze]

CNC has always tickled my fancy... can't one get more detail by producing a STL file and then routering....

Ziggy

[Sandy Mac]

Okay So i've asked the same question in another forum but came across this in my research.

My company is wanting to implemet Zbrush for sculpting but we need to get the polys to a CNC machine. The problem is it looks like CNC machines don't work with polygons. So how do you huys get you polygon models to a CNC machine? As far as I can tell the only way is to us Rhino to convert the data and then send it along to a CNC machine. If you guys could shed some light on this for me it would be hugley appreciated.

[recoveringnurbsaddict]

CNC machines (other than 3D printers) will never work directly with polygons. 3D data is manipulated within the cad program. Tools are chosen, toolpath strategies applied, simulated, and gcode is output from that cam program. One way to achieve this is using rhino, and the rhinocam plugin. Another is using visualmill. Yet another is using mastercam (high dollar). Another is GibsCam. Another is Alibre... etc.

Once in the Cad/cam program, the model/meshes can be scaled to whatever size you want, or to fit a piece of stock you have laying around.

With said Cad / Cam program, any file can be imported. Rhino works well with STL's, IGS's, and OBJ files. Further, my cam program (rhinocam) converts all nurbs into meshes before applying the toolpath strategy. Therefore, ZBrush meshes are perfect. Big files can slow it down a bit, though.

Hope this helps.

[polyxo]

CNC machines (other than 3D printers) will never work directly with polygons.

This part of your Post is missleading at least.
3D-Printers also do not work on the Polygons direcly but instead need 2D-Section-Data generated from polygonal input.
But one can feed in Polygons and that's what's important.

While a lot of CAM-Programs do not support meshes as input but only want Nurbs - some of them do.
Rhino does not do anything to the mesh exported from Zbrush in order to make it suitable for milling!
It is just the Host for RhinoCam. Apart from RhinoCam there's also quite a few standalone products.
Some CAM-packages are even specialized on working with meshes, they import a variety of formats, also
.obj exported from Zbrush. So one can feed in Polygons directly here. Some Brands are MeshCam, Deskproto, Mayka...

To my knowledge all CAM-Programs convert non-meshes to mesh-data for Toolpath-Generation.
With the Nurbs Model as a reference however they can do this within Tolerances from truly smooth Surface-Data.

The latter may play a role when manufacturing cars but certainly not when creating Carot-Reliefs. :)