Zbrushing with Meats!

[anguyen]

Ok

so i just finished up taking meats' zbrush class at gnomon this past december and ive worked really hard for the past few weeks sculpting in zbrush...meats class was great, very well structured and clear...that was the most impressive point for me because im not much of a technical person, having struggled for the past year and a half trying to sculpt in 3d packages was confusing and not at all intuitive...not to mention my past models made me wanna cry!...haha.... so once meats taught me the ins and outs of zbrush i was able to just sculpt! i also took meats' class in tandem with john brown's maquette sculpting class (also at gnomon) and dood was john's class terrific as well, he's a great mentor for sculptors/modelers...so if you can, i strongly suggest those here in the zbrush community to take meats' and johns' class if they get the chance, its by all means worth every penny! THANKS meats and john!


anyways, here are some the work i was able to come up with...enjoy!



:D midget2.jpg torso2.jpg lady_head2.jpg guy3.jpg guy4.jpg

[brook]

very nice sculpting. how did you start off your model? zspheres or did you import a mesh? the short one looks like a model from 3d.sk ;)

[aminuts]

I think you did Meats and John proud with these models!


Great job. Look forward to seeing more of your stuff.

[willog]

I got to agree with Aminuts, you certainly show the value of good teachers, hell why doesn't Meats n John work just down the road from me? :-)

The classes/lectures refered to seem to have helped you a lot, your sculpting is very good proportions are perfect, I'd love to see them textured etc.

I would also ask if these were done in Zbrush or were they started in another program?

Anyways well done your on your way, there's no doubt about that.


Bill

[ZippZopp]

its about time you posted this stuff dude!!! i've told you already, but this is great stuff!

[TimW]

Very fine modelling... great anatomical detail on the figures. :tu:

[anguyen]

just wanted to respond to how i set up my models to sculpt in zbrush...well i usually start my models in maya so i can just quickly block out the shapes and get the proportions down before i start sculpting....its just quicker for me this way...like traditional sculpting you use calipers to measure the proportions before adding details....so i use the image planes in maya to do this...then i gather as many references as possible of the subject im doing, and yes the little one is from 3d.sk, great source by the way...i find that the 3/4 view is crucial to accurately getting a model to look proportional...this is the closest to 3d you can get from a 2d image....also the front-down and down-up shots are really important to sculpt a head properly....so i usually have zbrush running and also have a little window of acdsee on top of zbrush (right click on acdsee in taskbar and set to "always on top"...then i can have my reference to look at while i sculpt....i usually photoshop the pictures into a long panoramic photo so i can slide the pictures in acdsee....


also i find that getting yourself too involved with running topology before you start sculpting in zbrush will present problems....just do what you need to start sculpting....the first image of hands, i made the mistake of running all the topology before i started sculpting...when i subdivided in zbrush i ran into pinching problems, something im sure all of you have encountered....so to resolve this i just keep the mesh simple and just start sculpting as in the second set of hands....you get a nice, even, and smoother flow to your model...topology can always be redrawn later...you'll have to watch the zack petroc zbrush dvd to figure it out...ive yet to fool around with the xyzshrinkwrap script zack shows in his dvd, i think this is a great script because it allows the artist to start on a project without worrying about the technicalities....also, i think this way is better because when you redraw your topology you can accurately place your topology to where you want them instead of importing an already laid out mesh and losing its accuracy when you smooth and sculpt in zbrush....well anyhow...hope this helps.


best,
anh


workflow
workflow.jpg


topology issues
topology.jpg

[elfufu]

nice work dude.. the girls torso is superb.

very very nice...glad to see you getting into the digital stuff.

Miguel

[brook]

hey thanks for the info anh. yeah i noticed that the more detail that you put into your start mesh the more problems you have. i guess there is no way around that workflow. you just have to redraw your topology after you do the ZB sculpt. you should check out Silo. it has a topology brush for redrawing topology. you can draw strokes directly on your model to define your new topology and then it will automaticly generate the mesh. its quite nice. guess ill pick up the gnomon dvd and see what zack has to say. thanks again.

[marcel]

excellent modelisation!... just very clean, and effective!... bravo!

[Sebcesoir]

Superb! Amazing!

Could you post low res of the woman torso?

[Sebcesoir]

Do you make the head with a subdivised box, like it seems on your low res midget model, or did you made some edgloops after, on the nose, eyes and hears before sculpting it?

[chadtheartist]

Everything looks awesome! Very nice work there, and a testament to Zbrush and it's flexability!

My only critique is the male model. His head looks to be too far forward, especially in a pose such as that. But other than that I find it to be awesome!

Thanks for sharing.

[Ctrl-Z]

It's a testament to your modeling skill that I recognized all the people based on just their body shape. No textures or anything, but I can point to the source photos and identify which ones you worked from.

I signed up with 3d.sk last month. I'll be happy if my own versions of these same people turn out half as well as yours did!

[jantim]

Another happy Gnomon-customer...is this a conspiracy :lol:
Anguyen , i think you were pretty good before you did your course, ...but i admit that i would like to see the miraculous Meats in action myself , not to mention Zack Petroc !
I would be nice to see the topology of your models before you bring them into Zbrush, like the hand, that would help me, and most of the Zbrushers , to create a better workflow....!

jantim

[Frenchy Pilou]

:tu:
Pilou

[ryankingslien]

Way to Go! Beautiful work! Glad you posted it, I have been hearing rumours of your talent. Great sense of form and beautifully captured models.

r

[monstermaker]

This stuff is Great, I want to see more!

[Sav]

Amazing stuff, if I could do something half that good I'd be happy :)
Sav

[Meats Meier]

It was a pleasure teaching such a talented (and nice) guy.

It's going to be fun watching studios fighting over hiring him...

:D

I love the dwarf!

[jkbolio]

I just wanted to say a few things about Anh, not just as an artist--but as a teacher and a human being. I am a 15 year vet of feature animation...and have been struggling to find "my" 3D program. I took Meats' class last term (he is great!) at Gnomon but, truthfully, hadn't much of a chance to play around with it. For me, it was a bit daunting--the navigation of a new interface and the complexity of displacement maps...
Anh suggested I attempt to build a particular model in ZBrush and encouraged me to watch Zack Petroc's DVD. He shared his very limited tool palette, showed me how to use photo references with ACDSee and broke ZBrush down into the most simplistic way for sculpting the human form. I didn't need to worry about superfluous program details that were overwhelming me...I just needed to know how to sculpt. I built a simple poly head in Maya and imported it, and began to play. I quickly mastered the camera (which had been such a nightmare...) and I am finding--instead of asking for help--I am finally doing the trouble shooting myself.
Anh and Meats have introduced me to a whole new world...
I feel so fortunate to have found my ticket back into the industry.
Although I am the one with the work history in entertainment--Anh has become my mentor. He has raw talent...in sculpting, drawing and painting. He is kind and generous...he has shown me such patience and guidance.
He is a hard worker and a pleasure to be around.
I will happily introduce him to everyone I know in the industry--I have already started to brag about him to anyone and everyone who will listen.
If you are interested...you'd better snatch him up soon.
Success couldn't happen to a more decent guy.
I thank you for all your help, Anh...I will be forever grateful.
Jamie Bolio

[Aztec...soljA]

Very nice 3D-sculpting, you are very talented person.
I love the shader in the woman's eyes, would you mind sharing the properties of the material you used?:)

[anguyen]

i never knew posting your work would be so exciting, thank you everyone so much for everyones crit and comments

well id like to answer some of the questions everyone had...so ive included the topology for my models....for the guy, i actually started that off as a patch model, i spent literally spent months on it trying to get the details, it was always hard for me to keep working on it cuz i kept thinking it was a waste of my time, well after zbrush came around, i converted my mesh to a low rez poly mesh, LOSING all of my details that i did in nurbs...but i kept a positive mindset, so i spent another week learning topology and redrawing it on my mesh....i know i kind of overdid the topology for a base mesh, but it was a great learning experience....then i brought it into zbrush and thats pretty much how i got started to learn to sculpt.


1.jpg

after that model, i started on the torso, this was initially started off in zspheres, but as i continually modeled, i encountered a lot of pinching and some of the surfaces didnt have enough resolution, so i decided to import that in as a low res mesh in maya and redo the topology, this time i didnt go too crazy...although, meats showed us a script in class that someone wrote in this forum that allows you to control the res with zspheres...ive yet to experiment with this.....but anyhow when i was redoing my topology, i decided to import my reference images to compare....and boy was off...so i adjusted the proportions and realized it was just quicker to use maya to start my base mesh instead of continually eyeing in the major proportions in zbrush....but when i want to do a model that is not entirely realistic, using zspheres is the way to go...much quicker and more freedom

2.jpg

ok so after that i watched zacks dvd and decided to start my midget model his way...it really freed up me from all the technicalities and let me worry about them later....however when i was beginning to sculpt the head, i had trouble with the ears and part of the eyes becuase there were no edge loops...the picture of the ears if included shows one without edge loops and with edge loops, i dont know if you can see the difference much but by just simply adding in edge loops you can get a little bit more detail, and in the ear, youll need as many quads as you can get! so yah i do use edge loops in my heads now


3.jpg
4.jpg

ryan and miguel - thanks for your posts, great to hear from you guys again, i was always trying to catch up to you guys..thanks! congrats on your new jobs at pixologic and luma!

meats thanks for your kind words as well, you gave me confidence in posting my work...to an aspiring artist, it means a lot from a veteran

and jamie, boy did you write a lot! haha but many thanks...your words are very sincere...i just wanted you to know you have a world of talent as well, i can see that in your drawings and sculptures, its proven through your work experience....i was excited to meet someone at gnomon that was going through what i was doing through, i had the same problem with learning software just as you so i can relate and understand...dont worry we'll get through this, its only time when your skills will adapt to zbrush.

Zbrush is truly the greatest sculpting software!

to end, heres what ive been working on as of late, im a big fan of anatomy so im trying to memorize all the muscles and stuff...just so i can sculpt faster...i dont know why i started detailing the face first, i think i just wanted to make sure i can make it look like muscles and not an ordinary face with deformations....well i dont know how long this will take me, im still a student taking classes at gnomon, lotsa projects....so ill only get a few hours a week to spare on this study....but ill be sure to start a new thread when im finished! enjoy!

anh


anatomy.jpg

[anguyen]

oh i forgot

the eyes for the head were just sculpted, like rodin's style....no shaders

just make a whole and pull out a little point from under the top lid to represent the highlight of the eye...simple as that!

[sephellius]

It is a wise decision to throw in edgle loops where anatomy seems to be extruded. Any looping before the actual sculpting takes place is key for anything efficient. You are a good modeler.

P.S. Your starting point for that last face is deeply similar to what I have tried. Is it because we share a last name?:lol:

[AnthonyPicciano]

I have all of the Z-Brush DVD's from Gnomon but i dont understand the whole " xyzshrinkwrap script " way of doing things ,would anyone know how to do this in Lightwave ?

Here is a sample of what i have been working on using Lightwave & ZBrushzzzzzz.jpg

[Ctrl-Z]

XY_Shrinkwrap isn't the most common function in the world. I think XSI might have something equivilant, but that Max and Lightwave do not. The next version of ZBrush apparently removes the need for it, so my advice is to be patient.

But if patience fails, I'd ask around on Lightwave-specific forums. Or start a new thread here with Lightwave in the title -- you'll have better luck fishing for Lightwave experts if you target them directly.

[jantim]

Thanks Anguyen for your information...there's indeed a world of difference between the topology of your models, the guy-model seems as good as complete before the Zbrush treatment, the torso seems to have its definite form also,...but the midget,..thats something else,there seems to be only basic
mesh" information" to work with, i had expected a nose and/or extruded ears !
Am i to understand that you pump as much polygons in the model and then start pushing and pulling with the move-brush and to a "lesser" degree working with the draw-brush ?
I ask this because in your latest anatomy-model the level of subdivisions made
the fingers look like tiny sticks..if there was more mesh in the first place it would take lesser time to model them, or am i missing something ? ( and i don't mean your obvious talent :D )

jantim

[anguyen]

jantim

well i usually try to work the overall shape before concentrating on one particular area...but in this case i just got interested with the head before i should have...but you can always work back and forth between subd levels and thats what i usually do....i try not to worry about having to sculpt things by saving time through adding more geometry in the area before i subdivide it....with low geometry, subdividing willl definitely smooth out the model...but its okay...its good practice to sculpt things back in....i usually use the standarad brush tool to sculpt...i only use the move tool to move things i already sculpted, lets say i sculpted the ear and it needs to be moved out or inward...thats when i use it....other then that i try not to use it to sculpt because itll remind me so much of moving cvs around in maya! for tight areas like the fingers and toes, i use the inflat tool.....so thats pretty much about it, i never use the pinch tool to make wrinkles cuz it seems like it just pinches the geomtry and makes things overlap....thats bad....so i just mask an area and move the unmasked area over it and smooth it out...then you get your wrinkle...hope this helps...


by the way anthony, the xyshrinkwrap script in maya is similar to what zbrush has when you import a changed mesh into zbrush with your current mesh on screen....itll just conform to the imported mesh...i would know what to do in ligtwave...cntrl-z is right, you might wanna try a more specific forum with lightwave users


anh

[j0sev81]

im really impressed for what u learn in such amount of time u must have some really good teachers
my question is where and how i could take the same classes

[anguyen]

j0sev81

i took meats zbrush class at gnomonschool of visual effects, located in hollywood...he teaches a few zbrush classes there so check the schedule, great class, he covers so much in so little time....

also, what i deem more important than learning the software is focusing on your traditional skills...ive taken 2 of john browns sculpting classes (also at gnomon) and im glad i did....he really stressed anatomy and the importance of taking time to look...thats exactly what i do, spend most of my time looking and examining when i sculpt/model.....

before that i did a lot of traditional painting and drawing in college...i got into digital painting about a year ago when i got my first tablet, 4x5 wacom graphire3...i stll use it to this day.....i wish i could get my hands on an intuos3 though....

i find that everything i did structurally paved the path to zbrush for me....i find that zbrush incorporates all 3 skills, drawing skills enable you to learn to look, painting skills allow you to work with strokes and laying them down confidently....and sculpting in clay teaches you how to apply those 2d skills in 3d....when you add all these 3 skills together, youll definitely do well in zbrush...i promise if you just spend the time, itll reveal itself to you...

but if you want to get hacking away with zbrush and start sculpting, check out meats' and john's, and zack's dvds at www.thegnomonworkshop.com

i had the opportunity to view them and they are pretty much exactly what was covered in class...they are great to have as sources...they teach you so much about workflow...and workflow is really important in the entertainment industry

anh

[Ctrl-Z]

i never use the pinch tool to make wrinkles cuz it seems like it just pinches the geomtry and makes things overlap....thats bad....so i just mask an area and move the unmasked area over it and smooth it out...then you get your wrinkle...hope this helps...Ooh. Good tip -- I'll have to try that tonight!


J0sev81:
I believe Gnomon is the only school actively teaching ZBrush at this time. It's expensive, but the one on one interaction is will speed up your learning like nothing else.

If you take the fast track, it's not as much of a disruption to travel for it -- same content either way. The key differences being how much time you have to practice between sessions, whether there's time to bond with the other students (and make powerful connections, apparently), and how long you have to wait before they cover exporting and displacement maps.

I live relatively close, but chose the fast track because I was impatient. I wanted to get through the material as quickly as possible. I'd like to go back sometime after the new version ships, take my time with it, and also devote some hours to helping the other students, because as I grow more active on the various ZBrush forums, I've found that helping people reinforces my own learning in ways not otherwise possible.

The DVDs are an excellent review for me between now and then. And while they're no substitute for asking your questions in person with an expert, it's as close as you'll ever get in that pricerange. ;)

...that last statement's not entirely true. I got a chance to ask Aurick lots of questions at Siggraph last year for free. But that was more hectic, and he didn't have time to explain the basis for his answers. If you want to know why everything works, and get yourself in the proper mindset to solve any problem in ZBrush, the Gnomon class and DVDs are by far your best options.


Anh:
Do you think a ZBrusher would benefit from John's analog sculpting DVDs without actually having clay to play with? I don't have an environment I can sculpt in, so I'd have to follow along digitally. I'm guessing a lot of the techniques transfer, but that they're no substitute for actually getting your hands dirty...

[jantim]

Thank's for your information Anguyen !
I hope you will post us a Z-script if you have the time...must be interesting to see you work,...and before you are whisked away by a Big-studio and you are chained to a computer :D

jantim

[crossbones]

Beautiful work! I like the fact that you did a dwarf! No one ever does them except in RPGS.

I also find it fascinating to see a great interest in learning anatomy these days as tools like Zbrush make their way to the market. I great deal of anatomical indication in your work. My only suggestion is to take it one step further and have an even greater understanding of anatomy (going to the extent of learning the names of the bones and the muscles). I disagree with Zac Petrocs's statement on his DVD about not knowing the names, its important to know the names as they tell you what they do and their function.




http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/attachment.php?attachmentid=5582


Looking at your female sculpt here I can point you to some reference that might help understand the female anatomical structure as its very different from the male's skeletal and muscle structure.


http://www.reybustos.com/images/Forum_images/Debbie_Body.jpg (http://www.reybustos.com/04er/DVD_Ecorches_/Betty_Body.htm)







The other thing I noticed is that you have male and the female both raising their arms. The back and the front look decent, but the "sides" need a little bit more of a look. The Lats insert into the arm pits along with the Seratus muscles. The lats attach to rear point of the Pelvis (until you learn the names I' won't use them)



http://www.reybustos.com/images/Forum_images/Seratus_Lat_@.jpg (http://www.reybustos.com/04er/Week_11_ArmPit_MX.htm)





When the arm gets picked up even higher watch what happens. Cool huh! The as my instructorand co-author Rey Bustos says ," Isn't that AMAZING!"



http://www.reybustos.com/images/Forum_images/Seratus_Lat.jpg (http://www.reybustos.com/04er/DVD_Ecorches_/Arm_Raised_Upper_Torso.htm)

[Ctrl-Z]

To anyone who just finished reading through Crossbones' post, make sure you click on each of the pictures there -- they lead to very nice Quicktime VR turnarounds...

Crossbones:
Zack's statement can be easily taken the wrong way -- I don't think he was saying we shouldn't learn anatomy thoroughly, but rather that once we know it, we can simplify a lot of that information internally. He showed a way of thinking that was useful for him, and which I think will be great to have in the back of my mind as I go about studying.

[crossbones]

I would rather tell people to ignore the muscles you cannot see, the deep stuff in the forearm for instance. I think Zac is a great Artist and he knows his stuff, I just didn't agree with his statement. Knowing the labels to the muscles and bones are very important they tell you what they do.

[anguyen]

great post crossbones!!! many thanks

yes, im definitely a student of anatomy...and your crits and comments really help...so far ive taken one figure drawing and recently 2 maquette sculpting classes...and none has really gone in depth to a large extent in focusing on muscle anatomy...i find that as i sculpt or model, i rely too much on surface detail and often rely heavily on reference material

i feel drawing and painting the figure and even sculpting it can only get you so far if you only focus on the surface of the figure...i find myself thirsting for the underlying principles of human form....muscle anatomy, and how it changes with movement of the figure...for this affects surface detail....trying to depict realistic human anatomy is difficult though, you cannot just focus on the principles of muscles alone, for body fat and other tissues are involved in forming the figure...

in relation to Jantim's question about whether watching a sculpting dvd and following along with it digitally will help? in relation to workflow, yes, but i strongly believe most sculptors and even modelers will agree sculpting traditionally is much harder and one needs to train ones hands to make it register...doing it digitally will only get you halfway there...i have a deep and profound respect for traditional sculptors...imagine if they all went digital, we'd all pretty much be in deep trouble!

anyhow to say the least, i will definitely want to take rey bustos sculpting class someday...seems like hes a knowledgeable instructor indeed...but for now ive enrolled myself in one of karl gnass' figure drawing classes...just need to take a break from sculpting traditioanlly for awhile and sharpen my other skills


and about zack's comment on his dvd, i think he was just trying to get the message across that understanding how muscles connect in the human body and how they interact was the more important matter at hand

thanks crossbones and cntrl-z for this discussion, ive learned a lot from this


well getting back to zbrush, jantim...in keeping the shape of my mesh i usually
use this neat little trick so i wont have to sculpt the form back to proportion all the time

thanks all
anh



subdivision.jpg

[gunslinger]

With regards to rigging and animation

While its a well and good blocking out the form in Maya to get the general form ASAP before Zbrushing it up, surely you should make sure your base mesh can be used by a rigger as they specify.

Termintaing loops correctly and building a mesh sympathetic to the model's movement and anatomy at the low res level may be less creative and take longer than simply creating a quick mesh with the correct proportions, but it will make rigging, blend shapes, UV layout and future tweaking a whole lot easier.

[anguyen]

gunslinger

well of course, edge loops are important, but you can always redraw them later, read the thread, youll understand :D


anh

[gunslinger]

Thanks for the reply, I'm trying to work out a way to concentrate on building our models ASAP and then worry about edge loops later on. This post is interesting.

We use low res cages (~11000 polys) with a prman subdiv node and then disp maps to flesh out more detailed parts of the model (not just fine detail general form too), so the lo-res model goes through a refining process before zBrushing. Ideally want to be able to get model approved, and then worry about loops on the lo-res form.

So could someone theorectically build a lo res cage mesh to correct proportions, as crude as they like make sure Uvs are good, Zbrush it so it looks great and have the freedom to make it look as good as they wish.

Then, I guess you could apply the disp map difference back to a newly built lo-res cage, with new edge loops . Provided the UVs are in the same location as the previous, it should pick up the displacements correctly?

[Jason Belec]

Hello Gunslinger, that approach should work. Similar to some of the processes I use. I think this might help you....

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=22300&page=1&pp=15


Taron does someting similar to what I've done for years with NURBS and that I've been exploring with SubD along with Displacement and Normal maps combined to geive greater detail at render time.Normal maps used to enhance and beautify the Displacement is new and does seem to offer a huge improvemnt.

For what I think you want, you will only get something decent if you combine the Displacement and Normal maps when rendering.

[ryankingslien]

gunslinger -

If you are saying, can I wipe up a model for approval and then, once approval is gotten, insert a new, remeshed model and generate a displacement map with that then the answer is not right now.

You can not change the vertex order of a model and still insert it into a mesh for displacement map generation.

Soon you will be able to remesh within Zbrush and that should address your problem.

r

[gunslinger]

No, not change the base mesh in zBrush at all, but rather use the same disp map on a different, edge looped (if I can use that awful phrase) model in Maya.

Provided that the genral volume and the UV layout is the same, then the disp map should map onto the animation model OK in Maya.

I might do a test on a face..

1) knock up the proportions correctly but very quickly and do a nice maya>unfoldUVs on it.

2)Paint it up in zBrush

3)Make another face in Maya (based on the old one) with correct edge loops etc, use uvXfer to make sure Uvs are same as old one.

3)Apply the resulting disp map back to this face model, should all work.

[ryankingslien]

sounds good to me. keep us posted.


r

[crossbones]

Sorry to take the topic off of Zbrush, I didn't mean to do that.

Rey bustos class is not necessarily a sculpting class. Its an Anatomical study of the humans and all creatures alike. He's not a sculptor and no one has to be to take his class. I would recommend taking his class or just talking to him via email. The DVD him and I are producing is a reference and should visually answer a great deal of your questions.



The only last thing I can suggest is about your female with the arms raised. Here is a drawing Rey did of his model Sarah. Look how the muscles are more closely together and gripping to the bones. Here is the thing about Zac's statements, how are you going to associate muscles without names? Calling things shoulder muscle, back muscle and chest muscle doesn't go very far when you are designing something like a creature or rigging a character.




http://www.reybustos.com/03ra/img/sara_b.jpg (http://www.reybustos.com/03ra/Sarah_mx.htm)

click on the link to see the Flash movie

[tez]

This is very interesting to read and I like very much that link posted and also this one http://www.reybustos.com/03ra/ra.html

[Ctrl-Z]

Gunslinger:
This depends entirely on your base mesh, and how much displacement is going on.

If you're talking about adding features only -- a more sophisticated bump map -- it should work as you describe.

But if you're rounding out forms, those forms are compensating for how one mesh is smoothed, by default which isn't based on UVs. It's based on where the edges fall, so when you assign this map to a new edge structure, depending how low res your base mesh was should give you an idea what kind of unplanned deformations this is going to create.

If you bring the new-topology/same-uv model back into ZBrush, subdivide, and apply the displacement map there, you'll at least have all your multi-resolution modeling tools available to spend a few hours fixing it by hand. The end result might not match what was approved, though, so you'll probably have to resubmit.

But, yes. Ryan's suggestion may not help with present deadlines, but it's a good one regardless -- when the new version of ZBrush is released, these problems should go away on their own.

[Cezar Souza]

:eek: The most impressive modelling I've seen here in a while! (ever??)


Congratulations!!! And please keep posting!!!!!

[jkbolio]

Hi Aaron,
I was in Meats' fast track with you...
Forgive me for butting in on Anh's turf but...heck no, take John's class! There is nothing like the clay in between your fingers. I think the class is less than $500 and if you live close by...
It is a whole new way to approach life and your craft.
You can watch the DVDs all you want but until you get your hands dirty...you won't truly "feel" it...
Traditional sculpting will add a whole dimension to your perspective on 3D.
It is a great outlet and a vital way to see & feel form.
Although I've never taken a class from John Brown...I have only ever heard great things about him and his class--and the students have produced really beautiful pieces.
(I had the incomparable and amazing, Ron Pekar from Disney...)
Anyway, Aaron...those are my 2 cents...
Hope you are well...
Jamie Bolio

[j0sev81]

hi thanks for the info on the dvd's my second question is this

im intresting in taking modeling clasess but not in computer
i want to get my hands dirty "clay modeling" so what would be the best approach to taking this classes i live in chicago,il unfortunally i cant travel to L.A I wish someday i could.
my dad just recently past away so know i gotta pay the bills and mortgage
so that's why i cant travel cant live my family here all by them selfs.

i was furtunally enuff to go to college back in 2000 and took 3d max clasess then by working hard i was able to purchase brazil and zbrush i been modeling since than i want to really model people and organic shapes so i think clay modeling will really help me out.

1st what kind of clay is it that u guys use what is it call so i could buy it here in chicago. as well as the tools, maybe books on how to model.

here are a collage of things i model so far needs more work i know but i hungry to learn more about it. hopefully u guys will help me with the info so i could take it from there.collage.jpg

[jkbolio]

Hi j0sev,
In response to your questions about sculpting...perhaps you should check into taking classes at a junior college or a local art association...even the Art Institute may have classes...
Call your City Hall and ask them about art classes...they are usually inexpensive...but the quality may not be great. You could offset the price of the class with the DVD, but I wouldn't just get the DVD--I think it is really helpful to have an objective and skilled eye to look at your sculpture and tell you what is working and what is not...and what to do to fix it.
John 's class builds their own armature and the DVD probably explains it well...it is a difficult process to describe quickly--so I'll just tell you to get small gauge aluminum wire, floral wire, aluminum foil, needle-nose pliers...or you can buy a ready-made armature from the art store for either a quadraped or a human...about $20.00.
John's class uses a Chavant clay which is non-drying--$6.99 per 2lb block, here in LA. It is "NSP-Medium."
I, however, love Super Sculpey. I think it is terrific...we used it at Disney. It can be baked and then you can have your sculpture made into a cast and bronzed, which I prefer. The big blocks come in fleshtone and sell for about $7.00 at Michael's (a craft store).
You can get the tools at Michael's or any good art supply store...I would get some of the wooden tools and some of the metal ones (they sell in little packs near the clay, for about $7 per 5-tool set at Michael's)...and one with the fine point (like a pin) for detail. My top 2 favorite individual tools are: one metal one that is shaped like a triangle, with a bit of depth--the flat side is facing outwards like a shaver, and one that is a wooden knife-like tool to push the clay in with...
That is it...I have seen no books that I can recommend...sorry.
Check the Art Institute of Chicago...it is a great resource. You live in a wonderful, cultural city...someone there would know much more than I...
Good luck,
Jamie

[shhark]

Hey j0sev81,
I live in Chicago too and have worked in the "real' thing for years & years & years. A good place to study that is inexpensive and accessible is the Pallete & Chisel on Dearborn. Open studio workshops as well as classes. Nude models
and multiple workshops weekly. I used to sculpt from the models there 3 times per week for 3 hours at a time. Also have painting, figure drawing, etc.
A friend of mine, Susan Clinard, teaches a good figure sculpting class there. Evanstons Art Center also has figure sculpture classes. Both places should be on the web.
Good Luck,
shhark

[abxy]

I'm also in Chicago, and I agree that Pallette & Chisel is a great place to go. ditto everything that shhark said.

[tbeattie]

Well to start out I've never posted any of my work here , but have a library of over 4000 images I've collected over the last year from this site. But this was such an interesting thread I thought it time to post my WIP. In Zacs defense I don't think what he said about remembering the names of the muscles is what he meant. I've been study and sculpting the human anatomy for 26 years and a don't always remember all the names
Names are not is what is important for a visual thinking individual. Its is more important to understand the porportions, forms, how the muscles overlap and etc. etc.

Crossbones love your muscle overlay picture of Carpeaux Ugolino and his Starving Sons it has always been my favorite piece , one summer I went to New York and took over 800 pictures of it.

Chadtheartist Chad I am the guy you sent some pictures of your female head this summer thanks again.

Oh this is a model I am working on in Silo to bring into ZBrush and eventually output to 3D printing device Male.jpg

[AdamT]

This is a great thread--really learned a lot.

Crossbones,
I was excited to hear that you're doing a DVD with Rey Bustos; the reference movies on Rey's site are fantastic. I was actually prepared to e-mail him to ask if he would consider putting them on a CD/DVD for sale. Can you give us some more info. on your project?

Thanks!
AdamT

[Webhead]

anguyen, your work is terrific. I am planning on getting Z Brush very soon.
After seeing some of the work on this site, I'm wondering why I waited so long! :cry:

[crossbones]

http://www.reybustos.com/images/Forum_images/Face_labeled.jpg

[crossbones]

sorry I made it high res enough so you could print it out!

[anguyen]

thanks crossbones, im definitely going to print these out for reference. so if rey is not a sculptor, whose sculptures are being used for these wonderful turntables. when is the dvd coming out anyways? before i heard about rey, a friend of mine introduced me to www.freedonm-of-teach.com, i actually purchased a model and am using that for reference at the moment...its a really great model. anyhow, i havent been able to touch zbrush for awhile and i fingers are aching to get back on it and finish up unfinished projects, but dot worry therell be more to come from me soon...thanks for your awecome critiques and honest comments, i really appreciate them and certainly will make me improve

webhead- thanks for your kind words, hehe yah you need to get started on learning zbrush, youll love it

tbeattie- great model, the topology work is outrageous, sorry i never got to comment on that before


-anh

[anguyen]

oops, i mistyped the site, its www.freedom-of-teach.com

[crossbones]

Rey did those models, all of them!!! Where did you get the idea he wasn't?

Rey doesn't consider himself a sculptor, he had to learn how to make his students understand anatomy in 3D. The ecorche was the result of his efforts.

The DVD is being secured right now and announcements in the coming weeks will reveal more. We are very excited about it!

Andrew's model's are awesome in the sense that he managed to mass produce them. Its a nice reference, but there is nothing like building your own ecorche from scratch, you really learn anatomy that way, knowing how the skeleton relates to the muscles. Rey's trainning the Disney feature animation team now, we have a waiting list that continues to grow.


Take a spin by the ite sometime and check out the ecorches
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=24593
I posted #24 Quantae and #23 Marvel



http://www.reybustos.com/04er/DVD_Ecorches_/DVD_fade_test.htm
This is some easy animation content where you can see the ecorche in an animation progression and how the changes in the muscles, skeleton, etc.

[Cecily]

Hi,

Splendid work, I am very impressed! :tu:
Could I just ask you what Meats is? Is it a video tutorial? Or a course?

Thanks

[Ctrl-Z]

Splendid work, I am very impressed! :tu:
Could I just ask you what Meats is? Is it a video tutorial? Or a course?Meats is a prolific CG artist, moderator on the CGTalk ZBrush forums, and instructor on several Gnomon Workshop ZBrush DVDs (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/groups/instructors/3d/meier_g.html).

This is his website (http://www.3dartspace.com/). One glance, and you'll recognize his work.

[Cecily]

I found out what Meats is on zbrush's tutorial forum, shoulda done that to begin with.

Keep up the great work! :D