Lord of Darkness - messiah and ZBrush

[tjnyc]

Hey,

Playing and experimenting with messiah and Zbrush Multi-UV-Multi-displacement capability. LoD comprises of 10 separate UV sets which totalled to about 20 million polygons, though I didn't really take advantage of that many, 10 million would have been fine, but I had little control of how much was divided. I'll be posting a short "making of" of the workflow in the messiah forum on CGTALK. The workflow between ZB and messiah for multi-displacement is almost seamless, they work very well together and messiah renders displacement even with GI very fast. Base mesh was made in Modo 1.x beta and I used Blender 2.36 for their LCSM unwrapping tool.

lod.jpg

higher rez version - click here (http://www.telescript.com/images/tony/lod_hirez.jpg)

Cheers,

[Mahlikus The Black]

I love darkness!
Would love to see some mesh shots.

[Strannik]

I like his chasirma! very good modeling :)

[gusansaldi]

Congratulations! a superb model!!!

[KingSalami]

Wow, sheer insanity! Thanks for sharing

[tjnyc]

Thanks for the comp fellows!

I'll have a bunch of behind the scene stuff to show soon. I am just getting all the material together and figuring out what to write up. I'll post the link to the making of when I get it posted on CGTALK.


Cheers,

[Mahlikus The Black]

Cool!

[ReplicA]

Holy crap, that is AWESOME! You really captured his look, and attitude. Amazing work.

[Frenchy Pilou]

...demon indeed :cool:
Pilou
Ps Not Silo in the pack ? :rolleyes:

[Giantsun]

Uuuuuh! Shinny. Me liky. :D

[chadtheartist]

Excellent execution Tony. Absolutely marvelous results, especially considering how many times I've seen people try and do Darkness in 3D.

I find it interesting you went with the LCSM technique in Blender. I've tried using it, but my results weren't all that great. I attributed it to my model being to dense to work with in Blender. I would definitely like to see your approach to the situation though, since you obviously got it to work.

Great stuff man! Awesome!

[tjnyc]

Using LCSM at first was a bit tricky, but what I found was the best way to get good UV layouts with it was marking up like simple shapes, flat and cylinder unfolding. Something I do normally without Blender, but the beauty of LCSM is really in how the unwrapping are almost distortion-free, distortion-less.


Cheers,

[chadtheartist]

So, like for the head, did you do it all in one go, or did you split it up, like front, sides, back, top, etc...?

That was the problem I had. I was trying to do the head all in one piece, but it just wouldn't work, no matter how I manipulated the LSCM tools. If I separated it like that though, I guess that would work. It would just make it a little more difficult to paint.

[tjnyc]

Have you also tried pinning with LCSM? I didn't do much with it, but I did use it in some spots. If you do break the face up for example, ZB does a really nice job of painting across seams, so that shouldn' be a problem. However, you can't paint across multi-UVs in ZB though, sort of a shame, since ZB have excellent painting tools.


Cheers,

[andreseloy]

Can you explain in a very simple way the topic you discuss with chadtheartist?
"...If you do break the face up for example, ZB does a really nice job of painting across seams, so that shouldn' be a problem. However, you can't paint across multi-UVs in ZB though, sort of a shame, since ZB have excellent painting tools."..."Multi-UV-Multi-displacement capabilities.."
Excuse me i dont understand.

Congratulation and very thanks for your great tutorial in Silo¡¡
Andreseloy

[ramon22]

i always like this devil nice work all over,the only thing is that his skin is too smooth other then that it is front page stuff:tu:

[tjnyc]

Thanks for the comments and crits to those who responded.

What I meant about breaking up is if Chad chooses to have separate UV layouts for the head instead one whole unwrapped UV for the head. So for example he might break the head into the front, side, top and so layouts of separate UVs. Now this can be a problem when trying to paint across these disconnected UV islands. However, in some 3D painting programs projection painting is supported so you can paint across disconnected UV surfaces. Zbrush is one of the better apps that allow painting across disconnected UV surfaces. However, if you setup your UV surfaces in different UV spaces beyond the regular UV space 0-1 then you are creating multi-UV sets. ZBrush currently doesn't recognize painting across multi-UV surfaces, but does allow sculpting of multi-UV mapped models. It is sort of hard to explain without demoing it, which is what I plan to do with the "making of" I will post in CGTALK.



Cheers,

[marciani]

Hi tjnyc,
my english is so poor to comment in a good way your work;:tu:
I need to say thank you about your enlighting tut in Silo forum:http://www.silo3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2616
Bye
Leo

[andreseloy]

Andreseloy

[acmepixel]

Tim Curry's fines hour. ;)

You really nailed it. Looks like a frame from the movie, only better.

[smellie]

:ex: what's this silo or Zforum? :rolleyes:

xcellent effort tony :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

i see u used modo for this one. i'm realy interested how u like it?
i just could not get a hang of it, it's got some cool features, but overall it just did not fit me. i didn't have a good feeling about it after 15 minutes of trying it....tried to get used to it, to no avail.
for me it's silo and wings (i like wings's mirai based magnet tool)
hi to silo crowd :cool:

[toonafish]

wow, that's some great work. It's the devil from Ridley Scott's Legend isn't it ? I always thought this dude to be one of the best devil designs I've ever seen.

Fish
http://www.toonafish.nl

[froyd]

toonafish is right. it looks exactly like the evil hero in this movie. Its just amazing work! great materials, extraordinare modeling and texturing, superb lightning... no crits at all.

Congratulations!


greetings
froyd

[Abyssis]

superb_superb work... whoa :cool:


_______________________
Abyssis

[3DP]

Great work Tony. Thanks also for the time you took to do the Silo modelling tutorial at the nevercenter site. I learned a lot from it!

[jantim]

Great model Tony, i was very impressed by your Silo tutorials, is there a special
reason you used Modo on this project.... UV mapping perhaps ?


jantim

[tjnyc]

I don't want to get too much OT since this is a ZB forum, but the reason why I used Modo, was because I was testing it out for its organic modeling. I had a desire to model LoD for along time but didn't feel I had the tools, but with ZB's sculpting capability I finally felt that I could do some justice to it.

I still prefer Silo for organic modeling, due to a better streamline workflow I have with it than Modo, but Modo is a better all-around poly modeler as it is very ideal for hard-surface modeling as well as being capable for organic modeling.

With the upcoming next ZB update I am probably going to be doing most of my organic modeling in ZB from start to finish, with a separate app for UVs.


Cheers,

[hyper1]

Tony, a long time LW modeler here. I haven't tried Modo. Do you like the workflow and how would you compair it to LW? Your model is superlative! Any compairisons between Messiah and LW would also be appreciated along with your experience as to the Messiah learning curve. I've been considering getting "Air" renderer for LW just for its ability to render subpixel displacement.
Congradulations on a job well done!:D

[tjnyc]

Thanks for comp guys!


I haven't used LW since version 6 so I am not the best person to give LW-Modo comparisons, but the common opinion among LWers is that Modo is very much like LW and some ways better. I don't like the workflow too much due to a feeling of bloatedness. It could be better streamline for more intuitive modeling, but after using it I sort of undestand why it is the way it is due to Modo's particular tool interactivity. However, like I stated if you need an all-around solid poly modeler with very strong hard-surface modeling capability, Modo is probably the best bet.

For displacement, I think messiah is probably one of the best suited apps, after ZB and PRMAN. It renders displacement very fast and pretty accurately. I had 10 multi-displacement maps at 4Kx4K, 37MB each and messiah didn't have any problems handling it, even with SSS and GI turned on. It also works almost flawlessly to setup ZB multi-displacement maps. These two apps work very well together.

messiah is missing alot of other features though, no geometry instances, no post-effects, no hair, no volumetrics(though that is probably going to in the next version). It is still a young when it comes to rendering, but what it does now it does very well.

Also, don't forget, its rigging is top-notch and is a very capable realtime animation package.



Cheers,

[tjnyc]

Here is a sneak peak of the stuff I will show and talk about.

http://www.telescript.com/images/tony/make_lod1.jpg


http://www.telescript.com/images/tony/make_lod2.jpg


http://www.telescript.com/images/tony/make_lod3.jpg

[tjnyc]

http://www.telescript.com/images/tony/make_lod4.jpg

http://www.telescript.com/images/tony/make_lod5.jpg

http://www.telescript.com/images/tony/make_lod6.jpg

http://www.telescript.com/images/tony/make_lod7.jpg

[tjnyc]

http://www.telescript.com/images/tony/lod_scr.jpg

Cheers,

[SolidSnakexxx]

Wow!!! I love this character in the movie Legend.. This is so great.!!! Congrat!!


Yong

[tjnyc]

I started the making of thread in CGTALK.com. For those interested you can go to the messiah forum or click this link

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=200732

Cheers,

[PeGGO]

:eek: ...Infernal...nothing more...Yeah...!!!!:evil:

[chadtheartist]

That's pretty cool work there Tony. Messiah looks to be a bit easier to setup than Maya, as far as getting the displacements to work. After seeing Taron's work with Messiah, and yours, I'm pretty tempted to give it a shot.

I didn't want to post in the thread at cgtalk, because I didn't want to interrupt your thread. But I really appreciate you sharing your techniques. :D

[steventaylor]

THis is an incredible example of the tools and quality available to the home user. thanks so much for the posts and the inspiration. Looking forward to seeing those facial bones in action, Curry's preformance will be a style to capture in 3d
the possibilities.

[slickytom]

Amazing work! It cracks me up cause i just bought a lord of darkness toy last night. http://www.spawn.com/toys/product.aspx?product=1578

Tom

[froyd]

I must say that tjnyc´s model has much more likeness with the original than the toy from that from www.spawn.com (http://www.spawn.com). There has some time gone by since i whatched that movie, but im sure abt that the toy has a thinner appearance, it looks cool, but it goes away from original.
What i want to say (again) is that tjnyc really did a great job, also - and especialy with preparation and research. I only can say: Tjnyc, thiis Artwork arouses my admiration in you. :D

The funny thing is that I had an idea some weeks ago, whose base has some similarities. I wanted a full body character with high detail. So i splitted the model into different parts via polygroups after some basedetail was added. Then i saved every polygroup (head, body, hands, legs...) as single models. Now I was able to give every part a quite high polycount. Since every part keeps the old pivot from the complete model its eays to get all parts back in place where they belong. Just by placing the complete one (with low polycount) as i want, placing a marker and then placing all parts at that marker. That works really well and i can still have the benefits from ZBrush features like layers, fibre, cavity, materials ect... (although i must state that the messiah renderer seems really cool)
The basemodel looks like this:
test6.jpg

and here is a link of an actual WIP (http://img100.exs.cx/img100/281/test116si.jpg) where i brought all parts (if finished or not) together again.

Hope you like it. I will have to work very hard if i want to reach your skill one day... I love your accuracy!


btw: grats for that tutorial on cg talk. You explain things with a very efficient and understandable speech.

greetings
froyd

[ilusiondigital]

your image need a new thread.

Impressive character Froyd.

tjnyc: No words for your work, it´s really awesome. FANTASTIC.

[andreseloy]

Can you make a zscript not from your model but one more simple that ilustrate the procedure:workflow... poligroup...pivot..marker?
Thanks in advance
Andreseloy

[Frenchy Pilou]

...image Froyd ;) :tu:
Pilou

[pixelsoul]

:D Wow that is just amazing... one of the coolest devils i have ever seen :tu:

[sumpm1]

This character is amazing, and so is your workflow. I would like to see the base mesh before the wireframes that you showed that seem to be subdivision leevel 1.

[aminuts]

The making of post a cgtalk is fantastic. One of the best tutorials on a workflow i have ever read. Very thorough!!

Thanks for all the time you spent putting that together!!

[tjnyc]

Thanks everyone. My next project should be a little more interesting.;)


Cheers,

[Mahlikus The Black]

right. I'll bite...give us a hint.
A nice good, hard hint.

[tjnyc]

Well, it is going to be a technical animation demo of sorts. Still relying on mutli-displacement, but also Taron's textureDeform to do some effects that will(I hope) show off some very interesting utilization between messiah and Zbrush for displacement-texture transformation animation. I did some testing while I was working on LoD that just blew me away as how simple and effective I was able to do some pretty cool displacement effects using Zb and messiah. Right now I am doing the prep-work and planning the project. I can say that what I am working on right now is far more ambitious than what I did in LoD, almost to the point were the multi-displacement LoD was just a warm-up for what I got on my plate now.



Cheers,

[chadtheartist]

Are you planning to do an overview like you did with LoD? I'm sure there are a lot of people who would love to see that.

Can't wait to see what you come up with. :D

[tjnyc]

I think so, but I haven't decided on that yet. It will require some planning, since there is so much more going on than what I did in LoD. I look back at the prep-work I did for LoD, it is nothing compare to what I have for my current project.



Cheers,

[chadtheartist]

I understand that completely. Good luck, and have some fun. We'll patiently wait to see what you come up with. :tu:

[Seavannah]

I couldn't belive tim Curry played darkness. I was impressed with him (about the only thing that I was) and I am so impressed that someone made him. I know you made this a while ago but is one of my faviorites I just had to say so. Thanx for sharing.

[dlb]

Very inspirational...nicely done!