Low Polygon Head Modeling Using Grub's method without 3ds max updt 9/23: zsphere tool

[Rafael Hernandez]

A few days ago I was browsing through the posts when I found Grubs thread about modeling. What's great about this method is that the mesh follows the major features of the face. Get yourself an image of the muscles of the face to see what I'm talking about. The advantage of this is that you can do one head and use it as a template for a great variety of heads. Another advantage is that you could use this head for animation.If you haven't seen it check it in the third page of this post:

Grug's thread (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=007969)

The first thing I thought when I saw this was WOW! this is an excellent technique. The only thing that bothered me was the fact that you had to export the mesh into 3ds max to finish it off. And I wondered whether this could be modeled entirely on Zbrush. The answer of course was yes, a better question would be wheter I could do it. So I set out to try it and here is the development of the head:

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1032721918buj.jpg

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1032722001rmk.jpg

This has been one of the hardest things that I've tried to do in Zbrush. I have a lot more respect for people like Ken, Grub and Ed the Atom who seem to be able to do heads effortlessly ( of course they had to earn this skill the hard way). Ed once wrote in a post that monsters are a lot easier to do because you can get away from murder. From my own experience I can tell you that he's right, it takes far more skill (in my case) to do a convincing anatomicaly correct head ( mine is not perfect but it's decent) than a monsters head. I got so frustrated at times that I thought "why don't I just get Poser and use a Michael head". But then I felt a slap in the back of my head even though there was nobody in the room, I think that it was Ed the Atom telepatically whacking me for even thinking of using Poser.(Don't hate me Poser lovers it's just a matter of what you want to accomplish with your art, there is nothing wrong with using poser).

Now you may be asking yourselves why should I bother with low polygon modeling since I'm so used to using high polygon modeling. Well let me show you the advantages.

Low polygon method allows you more control over the shape of the mesh, so you won't be fighting against the mesh in the later stages of your modeling session. This allows you to have the same level of detail even if you are using less polygons

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1032723064ulw.jpg

This also allows you to have sharper edges in places such as eyelids.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1032723163ojt.jpg

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1032723289lfd.jpg

Another thing you should keep in mind is that if you want to work in another application you will need low polygon models. This also applies if you want to do animation. Comments and suggestions are always welcomed.

[Ron Harris]

so the monster head is a 1.5 head model?

[Rafael Hernandez]

No Ron, the monster head is a 1.23b model. I put it here to illustrate the advantage of using Grugs method and low polygon modeling. In the low polygon model the mesh follows the shape of the facial features in the monster head it does not. The eyelids and the mouth were a real pain in the butt for me in the monster head. It's much easier with Grub's method. Also notice that I used far fewer polygons to acomplish the same level of detail.

By the way I changed the name on my entry and put the final version on a different thread:

You are Next Final (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=007501)

[Rafael Hernandez]

I'm and idiot with spelling. Whenever you see Grug replace with Grub. I'm really sorry about that Grub.

[Ron Harris]

kewl..because I noticed yer other thread, with the monster head, and that was before 1.5 was released..had me a little confused...and yes of course the contest....but I see we both have 1.5 now...aint it wonderful :D

[Rafael Hernandez]

It truly is Ron. I actually bought Zbrush to take advantage of the introductory price. The only frustrating thing is that I'm back to school and I've had very litle time to do anything. It's kind of hard to concentrate on my Algorithms class while thinking about Zbrushing. I've had to stop myself from doing doodles on the side of my page and to start paying attention. But such is life.

[Mahlikus The Black]

What would you do if any of you 2 are choosen as the winners?...(I think I saw an entry for you Ron and EZ and I think Stonecutter too)?

[Ron Harris]

MTB, if I win, I will hold another contest with a theme probably (not written in stone) and then pass that along to the winner of that one....but the rule would be simple on my contest.... demo only, no reworking in any other medium.. And with Halloween coming up that would be an excellant theme...or Fall Harvest Festival for the pc minded..snicker....but there is some nice competition on the contest so there is no tellin who will win...my personal vote at this time would be on Vikki or Ramon....both of those works really stood out in my eyes, not to say I didnt like the other entrants...but as they say on Highlander....there can be only one... :D

and quit doodlin on yer assignments..snicker...but when I was in school I used to write star wars sketches all on the borders as well of my assignments...sometimes you just gotta do what ya gotta do....just to get it out of your system... :) praise be to Z :tu: :tu: :tu:

[Mahlikus The Black]

Thats cool! Thats far better then giving it away. It gives all of us non-1.5 users a second chance. Thats Kickbutt Ron!
:tu:

[Stonecutter]

And Mahlikus I would like to point out here, as I've pointed out to others via email, that I have absolutely no chance of winning... :D

In fact I was the first entry, in response to Glen Southern asking for entries, since he is one of the judges...At the time nobody had come forward, and I entered because he asked me to, and also said to Glen in an email that I felt like a dope doing it, but was doing it for ZBrush, and that he should make damn sure I didn't win... :D

(Consider it a 'reverse fix-is-in deally! ;) )

[Bastard76]

This thread is very helpful. Low poly
modeling is a great feature expecially
for artist that need to animate. Other 3d
animation packages don't have the same artistic
feel like ZBrush has, so improving low poly modeling knowledge in ZBrush can help other
artist to get closer to our beloved software.

As for me,unfortunetely,when I was planning
an animation I had to say bye bye to ZB
because I needed low poly meshes to make animation easier despite of the hard work
in traditional modeling. :rolleyes:


It would be great to keep just one thread about this topic and add all of our
new experiments.
:)

[banez]

i dug up a OLD Pic and enterd it.
you can read here if i won http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=000579&p=2
i was going to Donate the 1.5 to a friend of mine which he less fortunat..

[Rafael Hernandez]

Michael: If I win I'm going to give the price to my brother because he loaned me the money to buy Zbrush in the first place. But like Ron said the competition is good, my personal vote is also on Ramon or Sirus.

Ron in this case there can be only two. Remember there are two prices in the contest. I just hope they don't take much longer to decide the winner.

Stonecutter don't sell yourself short. I liked your Carrot Reagan. What vegetable could represent Clinton or George W. by the way.

Bastard76, (I kind of feel like I'm insulting you) I like your idea. I think that Low polygon modeling is a powerfull technique. There are other far better threads out there about Low polygon modeling but they are all over the place. Maybe a moderator should make a category in the quicklinks about low polygon modeling only. (And if they actually do it, I hope the do another section with the tutorials of Ken B only). I wouldn't mind if this thread was used for that. I could even change the name. Tell me what you think?

Some more heads to illustrate how you can use a Low Poly head as a template to easily create multiple heads. All these heads were created from a single head in about 30 minutes of quick manipulations. Far better results could be achieved if I spent more time and used some references. I didn't divided the mesh on these heads but that might be necessary if I wanted to do an older man or woman.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_image-1032739925cez.jpg

Comments and suggestions are always welcomed.

[Stonecutter]

Thanks Rafael, but I am DEFINITELY not going to win...I only entered as I said because Glen said it would get things going, and I was happy to see it did...
And if they messed up, and I did win, I'd have to get the money together to go see Glen and kick his butt given that I told him I should definitely not win! :D

As a side note, I entered a contest once before, even though I did have my own copy...The plan I had at the time was that if I did win, I planned on also doing the same as Ron, but what I would have done is posted the entries, and then had the people who entered suggest via email the three they chose...I would then have tabulated the votes I received, and let the entrants themselves choose the winner...The fact they would be submitting three choices would have ensured impartiality...That was my solution to picking the winner!

Glad you liked the Reagan Karrot, and I think Bill Clinton would be best done as a turnip, and 'Shrub' would be a fine red onion... ;)

[Rafael Hernandez]

Okay if you feel that strongly Stonecutter, I'll go with you to kick Glen's butt if you win the contest. And yeah, I could see G.W. as a big red onion.

[Grub]

A well done job Rafael.
You're right using the methods, you can just divide the initial low poly Zsphere head in Zbrush and continue modelling.
About the contest, I agree with the nice idea to put the 1.5 up for grabs again if you win, and already own it. Since it gives others another chance.

[PusGhetty]

Some excellent head modeling Raphael! Great use of Grubs fantastic technique! You did great on these.
Take care,
Michael

[Doohicky]

I have tried this technique over and over and
I'm not getting anything close to what I see when you apply the adaptive skinning to the initial model...totally frustated! Are you simply moving the eyes and mouth inward through to the back of the root sphere? When I preview all I get is a total mess of overlapping poly's....I don't think I'm an idiot...but this level of frustration just makes me give up....could you plz show me how you set up the inital state? If you have the time...TIA

[ed_the_atom]

Excellent :tu: :tu: :tu:

Ha Poser thoughts eh?

Talking about respect for modellers....
Anyone who spends the time battling with modelling has my vote. I see some really good models, or attempts about....I look at some of them and ask if I could find the form and line that was found in the object I see. I admire a good model. They make me want to try harder, or to try and see if I can repeat what I might be viewing.
And, some like Mentat (now there is a discipline and skill) coupled with their immaginations... outstanding... others I could mention , but I think you know who you are.

It can be hard work....I've thrown away hundreds. In the end after the hours of practice it all begins to make sense.

[Doohicky]

Well, it seems my problems laid in the simple
fact that I didn't add a neck to the equation....once added, things started to work out...

[Rafael Hernandez]

Grub: Thanks for the comments and a very big thanks for sharing your technique with us.

PusGhetty: Nice to see you back in the forum and thanks for the comments. It is a great technique.

Ed: Thanks for the comments. You are right that anyone who puts real effort into perfecting his craft deserves to be admired. And, yes there are a lot more talented people in this forum who I failed to mention (Mentat,Southern,Sandner just to mention a few). And everyone who doesn't considers himself one of the "top dogs" but still posts his images and works hard to improve himself. It takes real courage just to post your work when you are starting out and think that your efforts are laughable(Which they are not).

Doohicky: The problem you are having is probably due to two things. First check that your intersection resolution is set to 5 or 6. You have to do this because you want the large sphere to be of a higher resolution than the smaller spheres and since there are going to be 7 spheres attached to it you need to set it to one less (in this case 6). The intersection resolution is located in your Tool's inventory subsection. It's the Ires dial located on top of the "Make Adaptive Skin" button.

The other reason why this might be happening is because you are placing the zspheres to close together or you are placing to many of them in a face of the big zsphere. What you have to understand about zspheres is that they are sort of round cubes that have 6 faces. You have to be careful not to place too many spheres in a single face or you'll have problems. In my tool the nose and the nose are in one face, the eyes in another, each ear is located in opposite faces and the neck is located in a different face.

There is actually a good reason why I arranged them like that, and it took me a while to get it just the way I needed it.

You are probably more confused now, so I'll post the zsphere tool so you can see what I mean:

HeadZspherev2.zip (http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/zbc_uploads/user_file-1032815957jhc.zip)

Use it to make your heads if you want but you should try to make your own so you can learn. Also remember to have patience with yourself.

[Doohicky]

Thanks bro,
I can see clearly now...da da da dum...
D