There and Back Again-LW-Steve Warner [Archive]

DBMiller

10-07-04, 05:59 PM

I use Lightwave 8.0. I recently have been learning ZBrush 2.0. What an amazing revolutionary program:tu: I have it down pretty well as far as zsphere modeling, importing models from Lightwave, texturing, painting, etc. However, when it comes to exporting back to lightwave I am getting very frustrated and disappointed.

I have followed Steve Warners tutorial to the letter. I have, and use, the 2 Lynx plugins (thank you Lynx), but when I try to use the displacement map on my lower poly zbrush model in Lightwave, It doesn't even come close to the model made in ZBrush. All it looks like is a puffed out version of the base model. I have tried adjusting all of the settings, and nothing. Also, when I try to use the texture map that I created, it doesn't line up either. I really wanted ZBrush to work. Does anyone have any other suggestions for an extremely disappointed and frustrated LightWave user?

Is anyone else having the same problems? Here are some photos of my ...uh Progress? If anyone cares to look. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

LowPolyMesh.jpg ZBModified.jpg ZBPainted.jpg ImportedLW.jpg
!DispMap.jpg TextMap.jpg

frogspasm

10-07-04, 06:09 PM

Can't help you on the displacement, as I'm not a lightwave user.
The texture looks like you need to flip either the texture map or the UV's.
Try flipping the map vertically and see if that fixes it.

~Mike D.

strongarm

10-08-04, 12:40 AM

first off your subdivisions are no were near high enough. You need to see what the polycount is
in the object window settings to see what your at. patch subdavision will need to be at least
6 for what I am seeing. Next flip the map verticly. make sure you set the render patch subdivision high enough.
I have done this exact thing on the mac for multiple objects Make sure you are using
the correct plugin as 2 displacement plugins are named the same and the one that comes with lightwave
doesn't seem to work too well. Make sure the plugin is set to 50% on displacement for mid point. this
way it wil push the mesh in both directions like zbrush. Trust me it does work you just need to fiddle
with it a little and you will love it.

strongarm27

TudorTBL

12-02-04, 02:09 AM

I have a bit of of a problem with normal maps.
After having flipped the UVs in V, and also inverted the depth in the same menu I still have problems.

example: without flipping depth it looks like the model is lit from behind.. I get that. But if I flip the z it is lit from front and below! My model is lit from the front and top. What to do?

Steve Warner

01-15-05, 09:13 AM

Greetings all,

I just found this thread so I apologize for not replying earlier. Thanks for all the kind comments! DBMiller, I think strongarm covered all of the issues that I can think of. If you still have troubles let me know.

TudorTBL, if you go to the Preferences menu and click the Import/Export options, activate the Normal Map Flip X, Normal Map Flip Z and Normal Map Flip Vert options. Then regenerate your Normal map and it will work properly in LightWave. I'll be updating my tutorial to cover Normal Maps in the next few days and it will also cover how to correct normal maps in Photoshop that weren't flipped properly.

Thanks again to everyone for the nice comments. I'm glad to hear that you found the tutorial useful.

Cheers!

Steve

big jay

02-23-05, 06:52 PM

Another plugin to get to go with this is zwave.

http://www.madeinasa.com/plugins/zwave.asp

this allows you to reimport the Displacement and UV data back into the original lightwave model from the obj file exported from zbrush.

link explains more.

marcopolio

03-15-05, 11:35 AM

Ive been looking through the posts and it seems that most people here are PC users. I am lookin for an OSX plugin for lightwave to work with Zbrush. Currently LW just crashes when I try to load even a small .obj file. Can anyone spin me in the right direction for getting started?
-A

Steve Warner

03-15-05, 04:23 PM

I believe the obj import problem was an issue with early LW8 releases. It should be fixed by now. If you're not using 8.2.1, you should update to it.

As for integrating ZBrush with LW8 on the Mac, you should be able to follow my tutorial up to the point where you export the displacement map. From there, convert the Alpha into a Texture Map. Then export the texture as a 24-bit PSD. You can use this in the bump channel and get great results. You can also use this in the Normal Displacement plugin. The results won't be as clean as a 16-bit file, but they'll work and give you reasonable results. You may also want to export the Alpha as a BMP file and try using that with the Mac version of the Normal Displacement plugin.

Hope that helps,

Steve

marcopolio

03-15-05, 05:25 PM

Cinema 4D is also an option for me. I dont typically use it for much animation but use it for nurbs modeling for some pre-viz work I do. Would anyone out there care to comment on wether or not I would be better suited to work with Zbrush and cinema 4d or with Zbrush and lightwave (on a mac)
-A

rkanyama

03-16-05, 05:10 AM

This was a site given to me that seems to solve the issue. It is a .PDF of a workflow for going from Cinema 4D to ZBrush and back.

http://www.tetsoo.com/test/tuto_c4d_zbrush_uk.pdf (http://www.tetsoo.com/test/tuto_c4d_zbrush_uk.pdf)

Cheers,

Ron K.

boozy floozie

04-18-05, 07:11 AM

Discussion at the NewTek site regarding ZBrush and OSX with particular reference to the issue of loading a 16bit tiff and 8bit tiff workarounds.

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=29121

Prevenge

08-17-05, 06:04 PM

Does anyone have the same problem as me?
I use my TB normal map shader plugin at around 40% on my surface.. and I get this tesselation pattern along certain parts! it's pretty much showing every other tri (from the subdivided resolution higher sub lev-smaller tri's) .. being light dark light dark .. this is with textures and all.. I am using GUV's with just the niormal map from my high res object. how do i fix this? they are extremely anoyying! and not acceptable at all for pro level work.
thanks for any help!

Lasercade

08-18-05, 07:10 PM

Hey,
Not sure if this is exactly what you're seeing but check to make sure that all your alpha maps are disabled in your textures in Lightwave. I seem to remember having to disable an alpha that was embedded in the normal or displacement map i had exported from Zbrush.

mm

Steve Warner

08-18-05, 07:35 PM

Hmmm... I've not seen that with TB's Normal Map Shader. Can you post a pic of what you're getting?

Prevenge

08-19-05, 01:26 AM

Ok here is an image of a WIP with it occuring.
The only place the Normal is being used is on the Tongue and Gums on this image.

http://www.amalgamy.net/mike/images/misc/MichaelSartore.com_TB_Normal_Triangles_on_tongue.j pg

Notice it on the back area of the tongue?
I dont understand what you meant about "disableing alphas" could you go into more detail with yoru method? As If you were speaking to a 3 yr old if you can ;-) thanks.

-Michael

Prevenge

08-19-05, 03:51 AM

well I posted a picture. It didn't appear . Maybe it has to be approved or something. in any case.. here is a link to it. notice they are on the back of the tongue in this work in progress of mine. I had a better version of it where the saliva was not in the way and you could see it clearly, but I'm in a rush righ tnow. You'll be able to know what I'm talking about.. again.. the furthest back part of the tongue... there are times when this artifact is unbearably noticeable with my maps.
http://www.amalgamy.net/mike/images/misc/MichaelSartore.com_TB_Normal_Triangles_on_tongue.j pg

Belseth

08-19-05, 06:12 PM

I downloaded and installed the 16 bit tiff loader but I can't find the silly plug-in in the menus. I've gone through every one I could find and it just isn't there. Driving me nuts. Always hate loading plug-ins because then you have to go looking for where they hid it. I couldn't even find it under the edit menus. All I can think is it isn't loading right when I install it.

Prevenge

08-21-05, 03:19 PM

ok here is another example maybe you can see it better here... look at the highlighted area where the jaw meets the neck .. see the triangle artifacting?

http://www.amalgamy.net/mike/images/misc/another_triangle_artifact.jpg

can anyone help me? am i the only one with this horrible problem?

Lasercade

08-24-05, 12:56 AM

Hmm I see what you mean.
Well I can't remember if my problem with tri's looked like that, but if you still haven't solved this check to make sure your alphas are disabled in your texture/displacement maps.

Go to your Image Editor in Lightwave. under the Source panel, set Alpha Channel to Disabled.

Doubt this will help with your mystery but worth checking.

mm

Wyatt

08-24-05, 07:43 PM

This is probably a no brainer but is smoothing turned on? I got a similar pattern when I first imported the Obj in LW then I turned on smoothing and it sleared up.

Belseth

08-24-05, 08:03 PM

I skipped it once when I was importing a model but it was really obvious, the faceting was really nasty. I have this happen a lot with shadow mapping, even at higher res maps, but I was using raytracing so it wasn't a light artifact.

I'm going to take another stab at importing since we just got a verbal greenlight and I could really use it on our next project. I'm hoping Lightwave 8.5 has additional support but my big hope is 9.0. Just hope they don't wait any longer than that. I'd place it as the number one upgrade issue with Lightwave for me.

Prevenge

08-24-05, 11:15 PM

yea my smoothing is turned on, on all my textures.
and that alpha channel is greyed out.. disabled by default
except for the one 32 bit image i use, which is saliva strands he has in his mouth which do not have any normal maps involved.

this really stinks. it happens on every normal map i make and use in lightwave regardless of object, texture.. etc.

I use TB's normal shader WITHOUT the NormalDisplacement plug in is that a no-no? do you have to use them together?

and if i did NOT make a morph target in zbrush before i started making my high -res version that i extract my maps from.. am i screwed? liek you can't go back and store the morph later right?

I'm under the impression that you store the morph so that the displacement maps creation has reference of two different formations of the mesh.. and makes the map based off of those factors.

I know my displacement maps dont work when i dont make a morph target.. but i am not using the displacement map plug in .. just the normals..
could this be the problem?

could the problem also be that there are some areas wher ethe geometry HAS NO change in it and the normal map is artifacting where it really has nothing different to compute? like its a default shading where there's no detail?

ack!

all your comments have been/are appreciated.

Lasercade

08-24-05, 11:23 PM

I think that might be your problem. I believe you have to make the morph, otherwise things go voodoo.
I can confirm that TB's normal shader works without the displacement shader and I'm getting none of what you're seeing. I guessing that you need to make that morph at sub-d one as per the Warner tut.

mm

Prevenge

08-25-05, 01:18 AM

crrrrrap. (said while belching)
plz do excuse the graphic nature of my response. but that's alot of work to be redone, specifically the interior of the mouth.

but oh well, my forgetfulness is my bane and I actually have to redo the texture (as I have to change the base model geometry's poly count anyway)

I will do the texture again from the ground up this weekend and post my results.
thank you very much for your help in pointing out what may or may not be the issue causing this, guys. I'ts helped alot.

here is a test animation i made for the guy, to test out this facial rig i have going.

http://www.amalgamy.net/mike/video/misc/_Scion_Snarl_test_002%20.mov

I also have come across a (quite perculiarly obvious) animating technique where you can "puppeteer" things LIVE in layout and it will record your movements. .. poor man's mo-cap? ..I used it to do this simple animation. I'll be posting a tutorial on newtek.com within the next month on it, just FYI.

Maybe it's something that everyone and their brother already have done, but I have found it has given me a whole new outlook on lightwave. We will see.

thnx again
michael

Wyatt

08-25-05, 02:51 PM

That dang Morph Target, I keep forgeting about it. Must beat into head, Store Morph, Store Morph.

I also have come across a (quite perculiarly obvious) animating technique where you can "puppeteer" things LIVE in layout and it will record your movements. .. poor man's mo-cap? ..I used it to do this simple animation. I'll be posting a tutorial on newtek.com within the next month on it, just FYI.

Maybe it's something that everyone and their brother already have done, but I have found it has given me a whole new outlook on lightwave. We will see.

Your results look pretty good. I'd love to see it whether I've heard of it of not.

Good Luck

CAS NYC

02-03-06, 01:10 AM

Hi Friend

I see your having the same problem I've had. I almost jumped out of a window :)

SO, YES LIGHTWAVE CRASHES when importing a .obj file from ZB.

But!, What I do is I import the ZB .obj file into MODO and export it out as a LIGHWAVE file or I re-save it as a .obj.

PROBLEM FIXED.

Good luck,

CAS NYC

gcarlson

06-06-06, 02:27 PM

I too have been following Steve's very helpful tutorial "LW to Zbrush" for LW9 and ZBrush2. i have been doing fine till i import back to LW9. the ZWave plugin is not in the plugins folder. I downloaded the plugin, buit LW wont add it. Did id download the wrong plugin or is something else amiss? Was it not in folder because it is no longer necessary?
Thanks

Steve Warner

06-06-06, 05:00 PM

Hi gcarlson,

ZWave isn't necessary, but it does make transferring your UV map a bit easier. It's hard to tell what's causing the plugin to not show up, so I'm going to make a few suggestoins and hope that one of them works. :)

LightWave 8.5 does't auto-scan its plugin folders. LightWave 9 does. If you're using 8.5, make sure you manually add the ZWave plugin. You do so from the Utilities | Add Plugins tool. LightWave plugins can reside anywhere on your hard drive, so just locate the ZWave.p file and it should then appear in your Additional popup menu.

If you've added the ZWave plugin and still don't see it in the Additional menu, open the Edit Plugins tool from the Utilities menu. Switch to File Grouping Method and locate the ZWave plugin. If it's not in the list, it didn't get added properly. If it is in the list, it should also be in the Additional popup menu.

The easiest way to find the ZWave plugin is to add it to your interface. Open the Edit | Edit Menu Layout window and collaps everything but the Main Menu group. Then create a new group and rename it to "Plugins". Then toggle down the Additional group on the left and locate the ZWave plugin. Drag it under the Plugins group. That will place a button for this tool out on your interface.

If all of the above fails, you may have a problem with your config files. Try deleting your configs which are typically in the C:/Documents and Settings/Your_User_Name folder.

Hope that helps,

Steve

gcarlson

06-08-06, 08:31 AM

Thanks for the sage advice. The problem was how i installed the plugin. I come from a DragnDrop world, and this plugin has to be installed exactly as described in the readme file.
Steve, later in your tutorial you discuss importing a Zbrush displacement node while in the Node editor. This node does not appear to be included with the LW9 download. can you tell me where i can find it so i can proceed further using your excellent ZBrush to LW9 tutorial?

Steve Warner

06-08-06, 11:04 AM

LOL, I always figured that LightWave 9 would be out by now, so I wrote about the displacement node as if it were already available. :o Since LightWave 9 is still in Beta, I can't distribute the displacement node. But if you look at the screen shot, you can easily reconstruct it. :) Just add the nodes in the attached image and connect them as shown. The amount of displacement is controlled by the Multiply node. Change it as described in the ZPipeline guide and you'll be set. If you have questions or run into troubles, don't hesitate to ask. :)

Displacement_Node_Setup.jpg

Cheers,

Steve

UnCommonGrafx

08-21-06, 03:32 PM

First and foremost,
Thanks for putting together such a great compendium; it's been awfully nice to have at hand while learning ZB.

Now for my question:
If one has multple UVs on an object, as demonstrated in your text, how does one go about having the images actually attach to their respective UV space? Also, is this a technique that will generate visible seams?
So far, it seems to only grab the first in the series of images and only applies that image.

This'll be the last hurdle to surpass for the full completion of your much appreciated tutorial.

Thanks for all your efforts.

Steve Warner

08-21-06, 03:49 PM

Thanks for the kind words. To attach an image to a UV, you simply need to have the polygons associated with that UV visible in ZBrush. Let's say that you have three UV maps (A, B, and C), each separated as described in the ZPipeline Guide. When you bring the model into ZBrush, all the polygons will be visible. Therefore, the UVs for A, B and C will all be "active." This allows you to have the entire model visible and paint across each UV. In my experience, I haven't had trouble with UV seams using this approach. However I can't guarantee it. ZBrush does have a nice "fix seams" feature, so if you find yourself getting noticable seams, you may want to try this feature out.

The big problem comes when you try to export your image maps. ZBrush can export the appropriate displacement maps in one step by using the MultiDisplacement 2 plug-in. However for color and bump maps, you're on your own. If you have the polygons associated with the A, B, and C UV maps all active at the same time, when you go to export your color map, the colors for each UV will be layered on top of one another, creating a useless image. The only way I've found to work around this is to hide everythign except the polygons associated with one UV. That's why it's important to assign UV Groups in ZBrush. It allows you to quickly show only the polygons associated with a given UV set.

Use the UV Group to display only one UV set. Then export your color map. Repeat this process for each UV set. In the case of an A, B, and C UVs, you'd end up with three color maps. You'd then export the object as directed in the ZPipeline Guide.

Once back in LightWave, you'll need to make sure that you've got separate UVs (instead of one large UV with the extra UVs positioned outside the UV space). So you'd have an A UV, a B UV and a C UV. You'd then apply your color map (or bump map, etc.) from ZBrush to each of these.

The whole process of getting out of ZBrush and back into LightWave can be confusing. There are a lot of options and there's no "right" way to do things. So that makes it hard to cover every possible scenario. But the case described above should work.

If any of that needs further explanation, just let me know.

Cheers!

Steve

UnCommonGrafx

08-21-06, 04:48 PM

Cheers!

Ahh, my misunderstanding: I thought LW would handle the tiled UV with the tiled sequences. So, it's back to the norm at that juncture. Got it!

Thanks!

sootin

10-15-06, 11:16 AM

Please can anyone help, I'm having real problems rendering lightwave models using displacement maps from zbrush. I've followed Steve Warners excellent tutorial step by step but I always seem to have the same result. The problem I think I have narrowed down to the node editor set up part. When I enter 0.25 in the multiply displacement value box it makes my model go mad with polygons going all over the place. Even if I change the value down to 0.01 I still end up with a render like the one below. Normal maps and bump maps seem to render fine. Apart from I'm getting weird seams on the normal maps. Am I being really stupid and missing something very straight foreward. Any advice would be great. I'm using Lightwave 9 and running it on a mac, if thats any help. Displacement Map Problem.jpeg

UnCommonGrafx

10-15-06, 12:46 PM

Make it a negative number. What do you get?

sootin

10-15-06, 02:32 PM

Thanks for the reply UnCommonGrafx, when I tried a negative value the image just bloated up like a football.

I think I've solved the problem by turning the mitmap quality off, but I'm still having to give very low values (0.02) to the multiply value in the displacement node. Have other people found they have to do this?

cheers sootin

Steve Warner

10-15-06, 10:08 PM

Hmmm... Here are a few thoughts:

1. Make sure you're not using CC SubDs. Only use LightWave's native subpatches. Even if you think you're using subpatches, it doesn't hurt to check. CC SubD's are known to produce this type of problem. It rarely occurs to this extent, but it's worth checking.

2. Adjust your subdivision order and your node displacement order. I typically set my Subdivision Order to "After Bones" and my Node Displacement Order to "Before Local Displacement."

3. If you're using the original SDiv Level 1 model (exported to LW), try reimporting your original LightWave model, storing a morph target, subdividing several times, painting some deformations, then dropping back to SDiv Level 1 and switching back to the stored morph target. Generate your displacement map from the stored morph target rather than the SDiv Level 1 modified mesh. (This technique is still described in the older ZBrush tutorials on my site: www.stevewarner.com (http://www.stevewarner.com)).

4. Try creating your displacement map with the DSubPix at level 4 rather than using Adaptive mode. In some cases, especially where there is heavy detail, the DSubPix mode works better.

Hope that helps,

Steve

sootin

10-16-06, 05:24 AM

Thanks alot UnCommonGrafx and Steve Warner for your replys and help. I posted an reply earlier yesterday to say I think that I had solved the problem, but for some reason the post hasn't appeared in this thread.

The way I solved the problem was going into the image part of the node for displacement maps and turned off the mitmap quality. As soon as I did this the displacement appeared properly. The only thing is I still have to set a very low value in the multiply displacement box in the node, between 0.02 and 0.03 is this normal?

Thanks again Steve for your tutorial! :)

cheers sootin

Steve Warner

10-16-06, 05:36 PM

Hi Sootin,

Thanks for posting and letting us know how you solved the problem. I hadn't heard that one before, so I'll note it in the next revision to the ZPipeline guide. :)

I believe that the value used in the Multiply node is relative to the physical size of your model (although I could be mistaken about that...). On a typical 1 or 2 meter object, I've always had good results with a range between 0.1 and 0.3. But those using smaller objects have told me that they've had to use much smaller numbers in the multiply node. Ultimately, the correct number is whatever gives you the best looking results, so don't worry if it's not what you see in the guide.

Cheers!

Steve

goli

02-05-07, 09:44 AM

Hello,

I re-post a question here about facial animation because here are the Lightwave users :) and the great ones :)

I have to animate some characters with all their facial animations and I wonder about the way to do this. Usually, in Lightwave, I apply some morph in Modeler (in the same object) and after that I use morph mixer in Layout.

I wonder about the result with the displacement map imported from Zbrush in this case, distorsions and everything you know..

Is it possible to do all these facial expressions in Zbrush and then import them in Lightwave, and in this case how :confused: ?

Do you know if there is a tutorial on this "pipeline" ?

Thanks to all ! ;)

Steve Warner

02-05-07, 01:21 PM

Is it possible to do all these facial expressions in Zbrush and then import them in Lightwave, and in this case how :confused: ?

Do you know if there is a tutorial on this "pipeline" ?Hi Goli,

You can definitely create your facial expressions in ZBrush and then import them into LightWave. There are a couple of different ways to do this. I'll give you the one that I use.

Begin by checking your model in LightWave's Modeler. Press the Tab key to turn off subpatches. If the base cage mesh doesn't look like the subpatched version, freeze the object (CTRL + D) using a low Subpatch Display resolution in the General Options window (typically 2 or 3 will suffice). This will ensure that your object is recognizable and more importantly USABLE at the first division level in ZBrush.

Next, import your object into ZBrush. Turn on DSmooth and turn off Quick mode. Then store a morph target.

Begin sculpting your object's first facial morph. When you're finished, export the OBJ. Since you haven't divided the object, it should have the same number of polys as the base object you imported.

Switch back to the original mesh by clicking on the Tool | Morph | Switch button. Then delete the morph target. Finally, store a morph target again and continue sculpting your next facial morph. When you're finished, export the object, switch back to the original mesh and delete the morph target. Then repeat the process all over again.

When you're finished, you should have a separate OBJ file for each facial expression. Go back to LightWave's Modeler and open each of the OBJ files you exported. Then open the original file (the one you exported for use in ZBrush). Copy each facial morph object and paste it into a new layer in original object. For example, if you had the original object, then an object for a smile and an object for a frown, you would end up with the original object on Layer 1, the Smile on layer 2 and the frown on layer 3.

Place the original head in the forground and the first morph in the background. Click on the Map tab and select the Morph | Bkg to morph command. Enter a name for the morph according to the object you placed in the background. Then repeat this process for each additional morph shape. You will end up with a single file that now has morphs for the major facial expressions.

At this point, you can go back to ZBrush and begin painting deformations on the original file you imported. When you're finished, export the displacement map. Bring this into LightWave and apply it to the model in Layout. You can now use Morph Mixer to choose your morph target and blend between the different facial expressions.

You may also be able to do this by blending different displacement maps together. I haven't tried this technique using LightWave 9, but I did try something similar with TB's Normal Map shader back in during the LightWave 8.x cycle. I created different normal maps to accentuate facial expressions (i.e. brow wrinkles, crows feet, etc.). Then when I would use those morphs, I would blend between different normal maps in TB's shader to get the proper deformation. I would imagine you could do something similar with displacement maps, but I haven't tried it and my guess is that even if it works, you're going to have to use a number of high-res image maps which will only bog down LightWave.

I do use the technique described above and can tell you that it does work. If you run into troubles with this or need more help, just let me know.

Cheers!

Steve
Don

goli

02-05-07, 01:36 PM

Dear Steve,

Thank you so much for this :):):). You give me the solution I think. It seems to be the most simple and efficient way. I go trying this now. I'll give you the result here when I'll have finished this work.

Thanks ! Thanks ! Thank you very much again to give part of your time to answer so well.

goli

02-05-07, 03:40 PM

Hello, well..back again ^^,

I've just tried your technique and it's very good for the first step !
I've made my model with LW / Subdivide at a good level / export in Obj / Sculpt the main "shapes" in ZB / and back again in LW.

No problem, same number of points/polygones so the morph is perfect and stored in the object.

What I realize : I can store the Obj mesh sculpt in Zbrush for the deformation, I store it because I want to sculpt it later at a high level of detail for a displacement map. So I have one Obj per expression.
The interest here is to have a high level of details in the facial animation, because the project is at this level (!) ^^

So ^^, now, for each morph stored in the LW object, I have a Obj mesh that I can sculpt in Zbrush in high rez. That will give the differents maps, displacement, normal, bump and eventually texture ( I think I'll export these picture in jpeg format even if I have 2 Go ram...)

In final I must synchronize these maps with the facial animation done with morph mixer.

I have to sculpt all the body and the face at a high level till the start of this project. Then when the sculpting of the entire character is ok I can start the work of morphing. I think I can do very realistic deformations with this combination.

What do you think of that ? Do you think it's a good workflow ?

Steve Warner

02-05-07, 04:34 PM

Hmmm... That should work, but I'd have to test it out to be certain. Technically speaking, your displacement should be applied to the low-res version of mesh from which it was generated. For example:

Base Pose (SDiv = 1) ------- Base Pose (SDiv = 6)
Morph.Smile (SDiv = 1) ------ Morph.Smile (SDiv = 6)
Morph.Frown (SDiv = 1) ------ Morph.Frown (SDiv = 6)

If you import your Base Pose object (SDiv=1), then subdivide it to level 6 (SDiv = 6), then sculpt in the high-res details, you should drop back to SDiv=1 and generate the Displacement map. Then in LightWave, you should apply the Displacement map to the SDiv=1 Base Pose object.

However if you sculpt a Morph at SDiv=1, then increase to SDiv=6 and sculpt high-res details, then return to SDiv=1 and generate a Displacement map, if you try to apply it to the Base Pose SDiv=1 (as opposed to the Morph SDiv=1 object), you will likely get deformation errors. But if you're using Morph Mixer to transform the Base Pose into the Morph object, then the Morph Displacement should match up. At least in theory. My big hesitation comes from not knowing what the deformation will look like when your morph is at 50% and not 100%. It could create problems.

If you need to do everything at high-res, I would skip over the Displacement map and just export the high-res object. LightWave 9 is much better at handling high-res objects when you use the Perspective Camera in Layout. By using a bunch of high-res objects, you can be sure that your morph objects will look correct. Then you can handle any fine details with a bump map. That would probably be the safest way to go. But you'll have to swap out the high-res objects with a low-res proxy if you plan on rigging them.

Keep in mind that you can do a lot with a bump map. Don't get caught up in the thinking that you need to sculpt everything in with millions of polys. For many objects, you really only need about 50,000 - 150,000 for the overall form. Then you can use a bump map to simulate the high-frequency details.

I hope that helps. If not, just let me know!

Cheers!

Steve

goli

02-05-07, 06:31 PM

Of course this help !

In fact, I think I'm going to run with a base level at 3 in ZB and in LW (in LW it's subpatches...) That gives me a good level of details for the main "shapes" on the face with the subpatches. After that, when the morph is generate in the LW object, I can focus with the high level 6 on the displacement, normal and bump maps in ZB (on the mesh/pose .obj I've saved before).
Finally I render the subpatche mesh in LW Layout at a level of 5 or 6, not more (because the initial subpatche have a level of 3 in Zbrush which is near 15000 poly (15000 subpatches in LW...)).

And I'm absolutly agree with you about the bump-map, yes. That's what I want to do. High rez model is only a "general" displacement map. I want to use 3 maps per mesh : Displacement, normal and bump. Exatly what you say in your great tutorial (pipeline ZB --->LW).
I think I can have good results this way.

I keep in mind what you say about low rez base model and displacement map it's essential.

And my models needs to be "useable" because I have to rig them too..so that's why bump and normal map are very useful here too...

Ok thanks a lot for your time and your advices, now it's time to try everything ^^. I'll give results of it here if you're ok :)

Thanks again and good work :D you are a precious help.

Cheers !
Goli

Plakkie

02-06-07, 08:34 AM

Hey Steve! Still about? I've put a LW<>Zbrush question on a few forums, but I know if you can't help me, probably no one can! :D
it's posted here (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=41774), here (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62987) AND on your own forum: here (http://www.stevewarner.com/html/forum.html). You must notice that I'm pretty desperate... ;)

Steve Warner

02-06-07, 10:26 AM

Hi Plakkie! Sorry to have disappeared on you. I've been burried trying to get Essential LightWave 9 finished. I replied to your post in the Q&A forum. :)

Cheers!

Steve

Wyatt

03-30-07, 02:41 PM

Hi Steve, got a question for you. Following this guide works great. The only problems I seem to ever have is when my modeling takes more than 1 session. Something in the way I save or don't save or don't redo steps the second, third etc. time messes up the output in LW. Output resembles when the base is wrong due to no morph target.

I'm sure it has something to do with restoring the morph target the second time in just not sure when to do it. I plan on experimenting with this to find the best way to restart a session that will ultimately go to LW but if you have any suggestions I would appreciate it.

And by all means if anyone else has guidelines they follow when restarting a session I'd love to hear it.

Thanks

Steve Warner

03-31-07, 10:27 AM

Hi Wyatt,

Can you give me more info on what you mean when you say "more than 1 session?" Are you taking the object you've exported from ZBrush and bringing it back in again? Or are you using a ZTool that you've saved out? Also, with regards to the morph target, if you haven't done any work on your object in LightWave since bringing it into ZBrush (i.e. creating weight maps or adding more geometry), then you don't need to switch to the stored morph target at all. Just drop your object back to level 1 and generate your displacement/normal maps. Then export the object in its level 1 state. Bring that into Modeler, turn on subpatches and then apply the displacement/normal maps to it.

Also, be sure to save your object as a ZTool before you wrap up your modeling session. You can do this by clicking on the Tool | Save As button. This will allow you to pick up your sculpting at any time and continue working as if you'd never stopped.

If you're interested, I've got a lengthy series on working with ZBrush that I've been writing for HDRI 3D magazine. The series covers all the things that were left out of my ZPipeline Guide, including a lengthy discussion on workflow in ZBrush, how to achieve great details on low-poly objects, and the proper way to paint texture maps. The series will span several issues and the first installment just came out last week.

Cheers!

Steve

Big Gun

08-16-07, 02:22 PM

Cheers Steve for all the info and tutorials, they've been a great help.

I have issue with my ZB3.1 normal map in Lightwave.
The model already has a displacement map applied. As you can see in the image on the left the UV placement of the map in LW is fine. But when its applied as a Normal map in the Surface Node editor this is the result I get. Has anyone got any idea's.
DB_Normals_issue_01b.jpg

Steve Warner

08-16-07, 06:03 PM

Hi Big Gun,

I've been making normal maps with ZBrush 3.1 using MD3 and rendering them in LightWave 9.2. So far I've yet to see a problem. So if you don't mind I'll ask a few questions and hopefully we can get to the bottom of things.

What type of Normal map are you creating, Tangent or World? Also, how was the Normal map generated? Did it come from the Tool | Normal palette or was it made using MD3? If MD3, what bit depth is your map? And finally, what version of LightWave are you using?

Big Gun

08-17-07, 02:18 AM

Hi Steve

The Normal Map is World.

The Normal Map was created using Tool/Normal palette.

I'm using version 9.2 , lightwave build 1206.

Thanks for getting back to me so soon. Since my post I've tried various Normal map exports testing the diffrent flip options in ZB. Although they all give diffrent shading results they all still have the strange UV map segmentation. The UV map is GUV. I will test a AUV UV and post the results in a few hours.

Cheers

Big Gun

08-17-07, 09:58 AM

DB_Normals_issue_02.jpg Here is the the model with AUV's normal and displacement maps. The same thing seems to be happening. Could it be to do with the way i'm exporting the OBJ file from ZB3. ?

Steve Warner

08-17-07, 06:52 PM

Hi Big Gun,

My guess is that there are a couple of things which are working together to create the problem. LightWave 9 requires Tangent maps rather than World maps, so the first thing to do is generate a new map with the Tangent button enabled (or create them from MD3).

It also appears that you're getting some strange UV shading. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that the problem is coming from the source object. For example, if your object is extremely low res in Modeler, it can create texture stretching that will give bad results. Also, if your unsubpatched object looks significantly different than your subpatched object, it can be problematic. Try freezing it before bringing it into ZBrush. Also, if you're using CC SubD's, try switching back to regular Subpatches.

If you're comfortable doing so, send me the ZTool or exported OBJ. I can take a quick look and let you know if I spot any obvious problems. If you're not comfortable with that, try the above suggestions and if you're still having problems, let me know.

Cheers!

Steve

Big Gun

08-18-07, 04:59 AM

Hi Steve

Problem solved.
:lol:
It would seem I have at long last lost my power to read tutorials with my eyes closed. Alas from this day forth I to will be consigned to reading tutorials with my eyes open.
In the immortal words of Homer J Simpson
“DOH!!!”
Turning the tangent normal map on did the trick. As it clearly states in your excellent tutorial. Thanks again for the all help.
As a Lightwave ZB user if there is ever any way I can be of help don’t hesitate to ask.
Maybe I could proof read your next ZB - LW tutorial to find out what stupid mistakes an insane person might make when reading it.;)
Cheers

Mik
DB_Normals_issue_03.jpg
DB_Normals_issue_result_01.jpg

goodrichm

08-18-07, 05:10 AM

Are there any ZB3.1 Displacement Exporter 3 quick codes for LW92?

Thanks...MG

WailingMonkey

08-18-07, 08:21 AM

{off-topic} Big Gun, is that 'Chet' from Weird Science? 8-) {/off-topic}

Steve Warner

08-18-07, 09:17 AM

Excellent! Glad to hear you got it working. :D And thanks for the generous offer! I just may take you up on it. :)

Cheers!

Steve Warner

08-18-07, 09:21 AM

Are there any ZB3.1 Displacement Exporter 3 quick codes for LW92?
For displacement maps I use: DE-FCEK-EACADA-D16
For normal maps I use: DE-HCEK-FAIAJA-Normal16

Also, you can use this config file (http://www.stevewarner.com/ZBrush/ZMapperConfig.zip) for ZMapper in ZBrush 3.1 to generate high quality Normal and Cavity maps. It's set to use the highest quality. If you find that it's taking a bit too long, open the Normal & Cavity tab and lower the Subdivide setting from 4 notches down to 1.

goodrichm

08-18-07, 09:32 AM

Steve,
Thanks so much for the quick codes!

LW9.3 supposedly fixed 32bit TIFFs. Have you tried them yet with ZB3.1?

Take care...MG

Steve Warner

08-18-07, 05:34 PM

goodrichm

08-19-07, 05:35 AM

Awesome, thanks so much for the 9.3 32bit codes! MG

Big Gun

08-20-07, 07:52 AM

Hi Steve
For the purpose of layering up of texures and various maps in LW, Instead of using a single UV map for the whole model at 4096, I've had to break up the model and create the new UV's.
First I created the various UV groups in ZB giving each an AUV, exporting each as a seperate OBJ.
Four in total BODY_HEAD_ARMS_LEGS.
Then in LW I opened each section at a time renamed the UV and offset them by 100% (apart from the first, BODY UV which did not get offset.). Gave them a surface name and attached the relevent UV to the surface in Surface Editor
Then I copied all the sections into a single layer of a new object.
Then I merged points.
Then exported it as an OBJ.

When i then import this object into the existing ZB tool it seems fine, that is until I scale up a Sub devision, then it goes nuts. (see Image.)

Also if I do finally manage to get multiple displacement maps out of ZB how do I compile them in LW Layout using the node editor?

(Also I've just update to LW9.3.)

ZGrab01_pretty.jpg

P.S - Wailing Monkey - LOL aint seen that movie in ages, na it aint chet but it aint far off. Here's a full render from lightwave of the charecter at the mo
DB_test_020_LW_01b.jpg

keleb78

08-21-07, 06:39 AM

Justone piece of advice for all You Lightwavers, who do this transition for the first time and stare in amazement, wondering what went wrong with Your displacement: Multiply node's value tends to be object-size depedant. So, if You are modeling and displacing small object, your values have to be much lower than average. In my case, when I was displacing box, which was modeled in real scale, and it's dimensions were in mere centmeters, I had to set the Multiply Node's value to as low as 0.02.

Cheers!

Steve Warner

08-21-07, 11:25 AM

When i then import this object into the existing ZB tool it seems fine, that is until I scale up a Sub devision, then it goes nuts.

Also if I do finally manage to get multiple displacement maps out of ZB how do I compile them in LW Layout using the node editor?It's hard to say what could be causing the polygons to explode. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that the point order changed when you exported each UV group as a separate object and combined them again in Modeler. If the point count remained the same but the point order changed, that could possibly cause the model to go wonky. Reimporting your object over your existing ZTL is a cool feature of ZB, but in my experience it has a high potential for introducing problems so my suggestion would be to avoid it if at all possible.

You should be able to get a sufficient amount of detail from a 4096x4096 map. And AUV tiles should make good use of the UV space. If I can make a recommendation, it would be to avoid using multiple UVs and stick to one whenever possible.

If you have to use multiple UVs, you should limit it to separate objects. For example, on a character, if the hair is a separate object, you could create a seaprate UV for it. But if the hair was part of the head, then you'd want to stick with one UV. Avoid creating multiple UVs for any object whose points are welded together. In theory you can use multiple UV maps on a single mesh using the Vector Add node the Node editor, but in practice it doesn't work out. In my tests, it always resulted in polygons going haywire.

I know you've already gone to a lot of trouble exporting separate pieces and creating separate maps, but try clearing the UVs, creating a single AUV for the whole object and then creating your 4096x4096 map. Then augment it with a 4096x4096 normal map, bump map and displacement map. So far that's the best way to recreate the details of your object in LightWave. :)

Cheers!

Big Gun

08-23-07, 06:37 PM

Cheers Steve

Was thinking it must be something to do with the point order being changed some how.

I will definitely be taking your advice on using the single 4096x4096 displacement map etc, I’m actually glad that you’ve advised me to approach it this way, it'll make things a bit easier. The only issue I had was there are a few close ups the film requires of the hand and face, and in the tests I had done the Disp map didn't seem to hold up. But playing with the AUV's settings as apposed to using GUV's has helped a lot. And now I’ve become so accustomed to transferring objects n textures between the two packages my brain has finally realized just how simple a process it would be to simply use separate higher rez objects for these shots.

So yet again a huge "DOH!" for me and big THANKS to you.:D

Cheers

Michael

Steve Warner

08-23-07, 07:42 PM

The only issue I had was there are a few close ups the film requires of the hand and face, and in the tests I had done the Disp map didn't seem to hold up. Yep. Separate objects will work for this, but something else to keep in mind is that with MD3, you're not limited to 4096x4096 maps. You can create maps up to 8192x8192! :D This should help give you that extra amount of detail. Also, if you're just doing a close up, you can hide the portion of your object that won't be shown in the shot, create an AUV for just the visible geometry, then create your displacement, normal, cavity and bump maps for it, and export the model for use in your shot. That way the maps will only be used for the visible geometry and you'll be able to get more mileage out of the available resolutions. :)

Cheers!

Big Gun

08-31-07, 08:49 AM

Big Gun

09-05-07, 04:52 AM

Hi

Has anyone experianced problems trying to bring 8192 x 8192 Normal maps into LW, I'm getting a message saying:

Could not load clip
Unsupported file type and/or file not found.

I get the same message when I try to bring in any 32 bit maps exported MD3 srtaight into Layout. Loading the images in Modellerseems ok.
Currently I can only seem to work with 8192x8192 after I've converted them to 8bit images in photoshop. But this will only work for the displacement maps not the normal maps.

I'm using ZB3.1 and LW9.3

Cheers
Mik

Steve Warner

09-05-07, 08:22 AM

Hi Steve
I'm having some problems with AUV's texturing the whole body. I have tested each AUVratio setting and they all seem to be causing streching or strange aritfacts. I just can't seem to get close to the level of detail or form in the Ztool. Increasing the map resolution doesn't seem to help.
In short i'm a bit lost as to the best way to approach the UV's and mapping of this charecter. In a previous post you mentioned about me sending you the Ztool, if you are still interested it would be great to get your expert opion on how you would tackle this charecter.
Hi Michael,
Texture stretching is often due to the condition of your model in LightWave. I tend to model really low poly objects, which is great for LightWave but bad for ZBrush. The best thing to do is to add extra edge loops to create a more even poly distribution so that almost all the polys in your object are the same size. This is critical to getting the best results. Also, you want to make sure that your subpatch object looks nearly identical to its base cage. The more disparate your cage and subpatch objects are, the more texture stretching you'll get.

If you'd like to send me the object I'd be happy to take a look at it. I'm currently running behind on several freelance projects so it may take up to a week for me to get back to you. But if you don't mind the potential wait, go ahead and send it to me at steve@stevewarner.com.

As for the large image sizes, I've heard of some users reporting problems with the TIFF loader in 9.3. I've not encountered this but I'll test it when I get home and let you know what I find out.

Cheers!

Big Gun

09-05-07, 08:55 AM

Hi Steve

I'll send you the ztool, it would be great just to get an expert eye on things. could the image size issues have anything to do with Ram I currently have 2Gb of Ram on my machine.
No problem with the wait, I can crack on with the smaller displacement and normal maps and set up some of the long shots
Is it ok to send the ZTLfile as a 3 18.8Mb Rar files to your private email?

Cheers again

Mik

Steve Warner

09-05-07, 10:38 AM

Hi Mik,

Yep, that should be fine. If it bounces for any reason, let me know and I'll set up a private FTP on my site where you can upload it. Please also send the original LW file (or the OBJ file you started with). :)

Cheers!

Big Gun

09-05-07, 11:39 AM

Hi Steve

I just sent those files to the email on your website. I hope they came through ok. Let me know if there is any problems

Cheers

Mik

embalse

02-07-08, 12:53 PM

Yes! :D You'll gain some extra detail from the 32-bit files. It's not a night and day difference, but it can really help the bump and normal maps. Here are the codes I use for 9.3:

MD3 32-bit Displacement: DE-JCEK-EACADA-D32
MD3 32-bit Normal: DE-LCEK-FAIAJA-Normal32I'm using LW 9.3.1.
Has anyone else had problems using Steve's Displacement Map DE-JCEK-EACADA-D32 code in LW 9.3.1.

Steve's 16 bit code works fine, but the 32 bit just goes white in LW and won't load.

I thought LW could handle 32 bit now.

Gareee

02-07-08, 05:41 PM

zogthedoomed

02-13-08, 03:49 AM

I get better results if I change the original
DE-JCEK-EACADA-D32

to
DE-JDEK-EACADA-D32

it changes it from Auto to Auto +A.D.F. although I've no idea what that means just now.

Mind you I say better but I've never got anything as good as I can get in Renderman for Maya. I can have a map thats full of detail and a mesh at as high a sub-d level as my computer will take yet still not get the displacement I expect. Its always lacking in detail. I'm obviously doing something wrong.

embalse

02-13-08, 05:06 AM

I get better results if I change the original
DE-JCEK-EACADA-D32 to DE-JDEK-EACADA-D32 Thanks for the code will give it a go.

On the LW front I am sure with the next update they will have fixed the 32bit issue.

viater

03-31-08, 12:43 AM

embalse

03-31-08, 01:17 AM

Helo Steve,
I use ZB with Lightweve 9.0, and I have unwraped uv. When I export OBJ to ZB and klick uv check ZB has crashed becouse there is no uv map.
Another proof that OBJ has not uv map is reload exported object to modeler.
How can I export OBJ from LW with uv? Please help me to solve this problem.
Sorry for my EnglishUnless you have not written it to save time, you are missing a lot of steps.

Create blank texture
UV-Texture
UV Check

Reasons for errors could be ...
Overlapping UV
More than 1 UVmap

Best to read Steve's tutorial. Really helpful

Hope this helps..

Steve Warner

03-31-08, 06:30 AM

If you created your UV map in LightWave but it's not being saved with the OBJ file, the most likely source of the problem is that the UV has not been assigned to a Texture channel before exporting from LightWave. Try this in Modeler:

1. Open the Surface Editor.
2. Click on the T button to open the Texture Editor for the Color channel.
3. The default texture will be set to Image Map. Change the Projection from Planar to UV.
4. Choose the unwrapped UV map you created. You do not need to assign an image.
5. Export the OBJ.
6. Reload the OBJ into Modeler.
7. Check to ensure the UV map is there.

Your OBJ should have the UV map saved with it. If it does, you should be able to load the object in to ZBrush without a problem. If it doesn't, there may be a problem with the version of the OBJ exporter. Make sure you're using LightWave 9.3.1 or the new Open Beta for 9.5.

Hope this helps!

Steve

Steve Warner

03-31-08, 06:35 AM

Hey Steve.. if your there and back again tutorial available in a downloadable format? I try to keep all my tutorial stuff available locally, incase they vanish off the surface of the earth, or my net connect goes down.
I've got a copy of the ZPipeline Guide for LightWave which is the updated version of the "There and Back Again" tutorial. You can download it here:

http://www.stevewarner.com/Tutorials/LightWave_ZPipeline_Guide.pdf

The tutorial was written for ZBrush 2 but the concepts still apply for ZBrush 3. I have plans to release a new version with a ton of updated material but it will be awhile before I can get to it as I've got my Modeling book for Wordware that I'm working to finish off at the moment. :)

Cheers!

Steve

Steve Warner

03-31-08, 06:42 AM

Mind you I say better but I've never got anything as good as I can get in Renderman for Maya. I can have a map thats full of detail and a mesh at as high a sub-d level as my computer will take yet still not get the displacement I expect. Its always lacking in detail. I'm obviously doing something wrong.You're not doing anything wrong per se, but LightWave works differently than Maya so you have to use a slightly different workflow. I've got a lengthy tutorial in Issue 18 of HDRI 3D Magazine (http://www.hdri3d.com/issues/h18.htm) which covers the steps needed to recreate highly detailed models in LightWave. I'll also be covering that info when I update my ZPipeline Guide document sometime later this year.

The best advice I can give in this short space is that you'll need to use a combination of maps to recreate the details in LightWave. You should use a displacement for the overall form, a Normal map for medium to high frequency details, a bump for micro details and a diffuse map to help accentuate the details. The HDRI article talks about how to generate each of these as well as how to reverse-engineer a sculpted mesh so that you can transfer the details to dedicated maps like a bump map (which is critical in LightWave).

Cheers!

Steve

Gareee

03-31-08, 09:46 AM

Thanks for the link, Steve!

AA-ron

05-12-08, 07:13 PM

Hey Steve, thank you for putting a lot of time and effort into creating that pdf tutorial. Ive tried out your tutorial a number times but I tend to get confused and it hasnt worked for me yet. If Ive got this correct...your tutorial is based on if you already have a lightwave model .obj that you export to zbrush, sculpt, then bring back overtop of the original lightwave model. What if I made my model completely in zbrush, and tired exporting it? What steps should I omit and take?
I just started a thread before seeing this one that I asked alot of these questions and posted the problems Im encountering. Think you could check it out when you get the chance?
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?p=453279#post453279
Wish I understood this stuff better haha.

zogthedoomed

08-04-08, 09:29 AM

Thanks for the reply Steve. I've not checked back here for a while as we've been busy on non zbrush stuff. But I came to the same conclusions. Rendermans sub-d and memory handling are just so far removed from LW's that its crazy to expect LW to achieve the same. The only way is to compromise and use displacement for low frequency detail and the normal and bump combination for medium and high frequency. Its a shame and does show, especially when producing high res print work. But at least that can be photoshopped to reintroduce some edge detail.

But the single biggest problem we're having now is re-uving. We're used to a mudbox pipeline where you can simply export the lowest level, re-uv, bandsaw, cut and paste and re-top it as much as you like, load it in and get displacements and normals without any hassle at all. Thats just impossible in Zbrush as it relies on point order which is extremely difficult to maintain when uving within LW. Unless you use ProjAll on an appended subtool but then that can introduce all sorts of spiking that can be very difficult and time intensive to fix.

Its proving very frustrating to not have (or appear to have) that flexibility.

I'd be interested to hear about any LW specific solutions to this.

Steve Warner

08-04-08, 02:26 PM

If Ive got this correct...your tutorial is based on if you already have a lightwave model .obj that you export to zbrush, sculpt, then bring back overtop of the original lightwave model. What if I made my model completely in zbrush, and tired exporting it? What steps should I omit and take?Hi AA-ron,

Sorry for taking so long to reply. My wife gave birty to our first child back in February and my free time has been severely limited as a result. :p

If you create your object entirely in ZBrush (typically from ZSpheres), simply lower the Subdivision Level down to 1, enable UVs, Create an AUV or GUV for the mesh, then export it as an OBJ. (You may need to turn on the Tool | Export | Flp button to get your normals facing the right direction.)

After exporting your object (your mesh should still be at the lowest subdivision level), use the Displacement and Normal menus (or just MultiDisplacement 3) to create displacement and normal maps. (Make sure the maps are flipped vertically before exporting so the geometry lines up properly in LightWave.)

Once you've exported your object and maps, you can pick up the tutorial from the ZPipeline Guide for LightWave 9.

The one thing I will note is that if you start your object in ZBrush, your Level 1 Subdivision might be REALLY low-res. If that's the case, it may make it hard for LightWave to recreate the detail adequately. The solution is to lower your Subdivision level to 2 or 3, then Delete the lower subdivision levels. Finally, export the mesh and create the new maps.

I do plan on updating the ZPipeline Guide in the next month or so, and I'm leaning towards doing it as a video series. I'll post here once it's ready.

Cheers!

Steve

Steve Warner

08-04-08, 03:04 PM

Rendermans sub-d and memory handling are just so far removed from LW's that its crazy to expect LW to achieve the same. The only way is to compromise and use displacement for low frequency detail and the normal and bump combination for medium and high frequency. Its a shame and does show, especially when producing high res print work. But at least that can be photoshopped to reintroduce some edge detail.I think that's one of the hardest lessons for LightWave/ZBrush users to understand. LightWave's displacement engine is really outdated. Hopefully LW10 will resolve this, but for now, we have to rely on Bump maps for the high-res detail.

If you're doing a lot of print work, you may want to consider doing the renders right in ZBrush. ZB3 is capable of 8000x8000 canvas sizes, which is typically enough for most print projects, even if you're using AA Half. I do freelance book cover designs and occasionally use ZBrush for the illustrations. Just pose your model, add a marker, drop it to the canvas and add all kinds of crazy detail. More and more I'm finding ZBrush to be the most capable illustration package out there.

The single biggest problem we're having now is re-uving. We're used to a mudbox pipeline where you can simply export the lowest level, re-uv, bandsaw, cut and paste and re-top it as much as you like, load it in and get displacements and normals without any hassle at all. Thats just impossible in Zbrush. I'd be interested to hear about any LW specific solutions to this.I do have one solution in mind that should work, at least for the UVs. It basically involves transferring the maps to a different UV and goes something like this:

1. In ZBrush, do all your basic sculpting but leave the detailing until later.
2. When you're finished sculpting the basic form, drop to the lowest subdivision level (assuming your base mesh came from LightWave) or a subdivision level with roughly 1000-3500 polys (if you sculpted from ZSpheres), then delete the lower layers (see note below). Create an AUV or GUV. Then export the mesh, create your maps (be sure to flip vertically) and save them as TIF (displacement) and PSD (normal) files.

(Note that if you started your mesh in ZBrush, the model you export should have enough polys to look vaguely familiar when brought into LightWave. If it has too few polys, it will make it harder to recreate the details with the displacement map.)

3. Close ZBrush and Open Modeler. Then import your OBJ file.
4. Create your new UV in Modeler (the PLG tools are best for this). Your model should now have the AUV or GUV from ZBrush and the new UV you created in LightWave.
5. Load your object with the new UV into Layout. Apply the Displacement to the Color channel of the Texture Editor using your AUV or GUV.
6. Add the Surface Baker Shader to your surface.
7. Open the Surface Baker options and select your new UV (the one you made in LightWave). Check the Bake Color option to bake the color texture but turn off Diffuse and Illumination. This should ensure that the the color map is transferred with no change in its shading. Then set the map size to match that of your existing map. For example, if your displacement map is 2048x2048, set the surface baker map size to the same.
8. Render a single frame. The details of your displacement map will be transferred from the AUV or GUV to your LightWave UV and the map will be saved to disc. (You should be able to retain the high-frequency detail of your displacement by saving your map in the .hdr format and then converting it back to a TIF in Photoshop.)
9. Repeat for any other maps (i.e. bump, normal, etc.)
10. Open your object in Modeler. Delete the AUV or GUV, leaving only the LightWave UV map. Apply this map to the Color channel. Then export the model as an OBJ.
11. Import the OBJ and reconfigured displacement map into ZBrush. Subdivide the model to the level you previously had it. Then use the Displacement function in ZBrush to apply your displacement map to your model. (You will need to tinker with the displacement strength to find the right setting.) This will restore the shape of the object to what it was back at the beginning. You may need to do some minor adjustments but they should be relatively minor.
12. Now that your object has the new UVs and looks like it did at the start, you can continue detailing the high-res model. You should also be able to use ZBrush's Retoppology tool to adjust the flow of your mesh, although I haven't tried it using this technique and can't say for certain.

I hope that helps somewhat!

Cheers,

Steve