Rendering ZBrush Displacement-Maps In External Renderers (May 9th: 2nd file added)

[Pixolator]

The concept of displacement mapping is not new, but the significant interest in it certainly is. Since the use of displacement maps is not yet a standard feature in all renderers, a certain degree of experimentation is required in order to achieve optimal results.

This thread is intended to be a 'one-stop shop' containing posts by ZBC members who have successfully rendered ZBrush-generated displacements maps in one (or more) external renderers.


Achieving optimal results in external renderers requires you to...

1. Generate the displacement map correctly.
2. Experiment and find the best render-settings in the external renderer.

To simplify the process of finding the optimal workflow, I'm including a sample low-res head mesh with its calculated Z2 displacement map (step 1). This will allow you to concentrate your efforts on getting the best results out of the external renderer (step 2).

The following is the test mesh which was created, detailed and then rendered in ZBrush with, and without, the displacement-map...

user_image-1083212314xmc.jpg


Use the link below to download a zip archive which contains 2 files: the low-resolution mesh (OBJ format) and the displacement-map (TIF format).

:b3: :b3: :b3: Click here to download the ZIP archive (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/zbadds/downloads/DispTestHead_TIFNG.zip) :b3: :b3: :b3:

Note 1: The displacement-map may need to be flipped vertically for correct UV mapping.
Note 2: The displacement-gain in ZBrush was set to 0.834; you may need to factor this value to achieve similar displacement amount in the external renderer.

Test these files in the renderer that you're using. If you have achieved successful results (similar to the above image, in any color) you're invited to post your findings in this thread, so others can benefit from them.




To keep this thread as informative as possible, please don't post unsuccessful results here. If you have encountered difficulties or have questions regarding this thread, please post them in the Q&T forum.

As time progresses, the usage of displacement and normal maps will become standardized and simpler. On the ZBrush side, we will continue to enhance these features, and will continue to share information with other companies to help streamline the process of rendering ZBrush-generated displacement and normal maps in their renderers.

Thanks :)
-Pixolator


Update May 9th 2004:

Here is one more displacement map test...

user_image-1084143678htl.jpg

This test will better enable you to evaluate the accuracy of your test-render.

This displacement test is much less forgiving than the one above due to several factors...

1. Higher details ratio: 2.26 million polygons mapped into 138 polygons. Each low-res polygon represents 16384 high-res polygons.

2. The displacement is composed of geometric shapes, making any mapping distortions easily detectable.

3. The sides of the sword are perpendicular, causing abrupt changes of the normal directions within small areas.

Note 1: Since antialiasing and sampling of the displacement values are handled differently across applications, ZBrush can export the UV coordinates with or without a 0.5-pixel offset. Both files are included within the zip file. You may want to try both, to determine which one works better (i.e., is more seamless) in the external renderer.

Note 2: This test uses AUVTiles mapping. Normally, discontinuous UV mapping produces visible seam artifacts. To eliminate these artifacts, ZBrush automatically executes a smart seam-overpaint when the displacement map is generated. (The smart seam routine is optimized for AUVTiles/GUVTiles and other rectangle-based UV mapping. For other mapping methods the standard seam-overpaint is used)

Note 3: If your external renderer cannot make use of the full 16-bit resolution of the included displacement map, you may be able to improve the displacement render quality by first maximizing the grayscale contrast of the 16-bit displacement map, then reducing its depth to 8 bits.

Note 4: This test is provided because it's a very demanding displacement map. Since it requires a more accurate rendering, some visible artifacts in your test render, especially at the sharp edges of the blade, will be acceptable. Typically, mesh/displacement map combinations are less demanding, and artifacts (if there are any) are less likely to be noticeable.

Note 5: If you need to modify the included displacement file to better fit the format expected by the external renderer (i.e., by splitting the map to positive and negative displacements, or by reducing the map depth to 8 bits), please specify these steps in your post. In the near future, I plan to write a ZBrush plugin which will enable you to specify a target application, and ZBrush will export the map(s) in a ready-to-use format.


:b3: :b3: :b3:Click here to download the sword test files (Alpha gain=0.286) (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/zbadds/downloads/ZSwordDispTest2.zip) :b3: :b3: :b3:


Below is an alternate (easier to render) version of the Sword file.
This file is mapped with GUVTiles mapping...

user_image-1084185891ald.jpg

... and the displacement map generated from Subdiv level 2 (instead of 1)
which reduces the HighRes/LowRes ratio to 4096 (instead of 16384).

:b3: :b3: :b3: Click here to download the alternate sword test files (Alpha gain=0.14) (http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/zb_memberdownload.php?getfile=ZSword_SDiv2_GUV.zip ) :b3: :b3: :b3:

[Jacob]

This is a quick test done in Turtle For Maya.
No cool materials or lighting, just a simple lambert shaded mesh to illustrate the geometry.

Resolution 800x600, supersampled.

Rendered in 26 seconds on an AMD 2.3 GHz with 1GB RAM.

user_image-1083140360qvd.jpg

Workflow:


1. Load the .obj file into Maya, and mark "render as subdivision surface" on the shape node of the mesh (level 3 for this test).

2. Assign a shading group to the mesh.

3. As displacement material for the shading group, choose "ilrDisplace".

4. Set displacement options to match ZBrush displacement:
- Flip texture = yes. (ZBrush flips while exporting, compared to maya's settings)
- Displacement offset = 0.5 (white = positive displacement, gray zero, black negative)
- Displacement scale. Adjust so that it matches the look you want.

5. Render.

Easy setup and very fast!

Jacob Munkberg
Illuminate Labs
http://www.illuminatelabs.com/

[cornel]

thanks for sharing, pixolator.
my results:

user_image-1083148066oco.jpg

[skycastle]

Here is my test.
Rendered in Renderman.
Renders in less than 10 seconds.
No problems with banding or anything else.

Dave

user_image-1083148026drm.jpg

[Scott Spencer]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083151670qga.jpg


Pixolator thank you so much for starting this thread.

Here is a test render from Maya 5 with Mental Ray

Settings:
Flip map in photoshop.
Save as a RGB Tif
Create a lambert shader with map in displacment channel.
Turn off feature displacement in attribute editor for the model.
Add Mental Ray subdivision and displacement nodes in the approximation editor

subdivision settings:
Spatial
min 4
max 9
length .100
view dependent
NOTE the min max settings here will increase render time as they are raised but they also seem to govern how much fine detail you get from the map in conjunction with the alpha gain and offset which seem to determine how much overall displacement you get in the pos and neg range.

DisplaceApprox:
Presets: FineViewHighQuality
min 0
max 7
length .250
view dependent

in the render globals set Mental ray to production quality and turn off backfaces under general settings (set to render front)

The most important setting I found was that the alpha depth is 14 and the offset -7 for this model.

Scott

[mickatt]

hi

testing with vray

-import obj
- apply a meshsmooth modifier to the object
- aplly a vray displacement modifier
set an amount of 8 and a shift of -4
resolution to 1024
render in 720 576 in 9 sec

ztest.jpg

[kobi1kobi]

skycastle, can you please share with me the maya file you made for rendering with PRMAN? I'm trying to use a slim displacement shader and with no luck.

I assume mailing the file would be less tediuos then giving a somplete walkthru, bu if you can also guide us on the right path... :)
thanks,

kobi

[YuYang]

fr
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083159880xsx.jpg
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083194340npt.jpg

[Trurl]

Cinema 4D 6 CE:

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083173058xga.jpg


http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083173080wuq.jpg

(Sorry, my english is poor)

[Continuumx]

I have noticed in a majority of these external render solutions, cinema, turtle, and vray, that there are subtle bloatness of features missing. I would say all of these entries so far, should be re-evaluated and updated to get a much closer match to the post that pixolator posted.

[rray]

using XSI/MR here:

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083175730lqi.jpg

(hope Pixolator won't sue me for using a transparent bg hehe)

1st...same steps as Scott used for maya MR for the format:

-Flip map vertically
-Convert to RGB (MR can't read 16-bit greyscale TIF)

then inside XSI's render tree,

-convert image texture output to scalar
-subtract 0,627 from that value .. this seems to be necessary because "no displacement" does not seem to be 0,5 in the provided texture, but 0,627 instead
-multiply by 10 (this value must be guessed unfortunately. Continuumx--- this is also why probably some of the models might look a little bloated to you)
-plug into shader's displacement. Done

--------
Edit:
make sure before opening the map in PS to turn OFF color management! That's what caused the shift to 0.627 on my machine.

[Atog007]

rray, what are your setting for displacement in xsi ? are you using fine displacement ? i have a lot of trouble getting my disp maps working in xsi :P ( a lot of mental ray crash )

[edit] (just see that you said there are the same setting as Scott for mr under maya, guess it's fine displacement so ^^)

[spidex]

okie i think i got it.
Thanks for the infor Scott.
However, I wonder how anyone would have any clue to the kind of settings that one should insert in those attritbutes ...

[pnoland]

Cinema 4D CE+. I'm so happy this works!

[Continuumx]

RRay, your settings are as close as match as I have seen. Very acceptable solution.

Fantastic render!

[policarpo]

my test using the findings discovered by our ZB C4D boys. :)

There's some weird banding, if you look at the nose in particular.

Render times are a little high I guess because of the displacement and upped Subdivisions.

Good to see either way...looking like we can use zBrush with some creative workarounds.

Cheers!

displace.jpg

[MDB101]

skycastle: Can you post your specs with your Prman settings?? Im doing the same tests but with uhh bad results :) thnx in advance :)

[Julien]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083188085nlt.jpg


MAX 6.0, thats the viewport view...(and a render)
Just a meshsmooth and standard displace modifier, luminance center at 0.5 and strength=17

It just mean that if anything else fails, in MAX, you can still use max displace to get the result you want. But no micropoly displacement here...


Julien

Oh, and by the way.. thanks Pixolator for the nice head model :)

[Zeddicus]

My test render using 2D mapping in Max/Vray. Look ma! No banding! Though I can now make it appear on demand, hehe. :)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083188374yia.jpg

By the way Cornel, I see lots banding in your C4D displacement image. Just thought I'd quickly point it out.

Edit: Don't know if this matters to anyone but thought I'd add it on to this post for the heck of it. Vray in 3D displacement mode looked pretty much identical to the 2D mode version. Only real difference was time. In 2D mode render time was 0 minutes 11 seconds, and in 3D mode 5 minutes 7 seconds. Quite a difference, and I was using the same fairly conservative render settings for both (very close to defaults, nothing special really).

[kobi1kobi]

Julien, do you happen to know if it's possible to use maxman with max 6 and render the model as SubD?
might be nice (if I can figure out how to do it in maya :) )

[Zeddicus]

Since no one has tried Max6+MentalRay yet, here is the best I could do. Can't really do anything about the banding like I can with Vray unfortunately (like lowering the blur setting in the material editor). Mental Ray in Max seems to ignore those settings, so I figure the default 1.0 blur is being applied and can't be changed. Playing with the various dispalcement settings can mitigate it some what, but also tends to make for a lower quality displacement at the same time (looks less like banding and more like a bumpy orange skin). No big deal to me though, since I don't really use MR for anything at the moment. :p

PS: Yeah, could be considered a failure I suppose. Figured I'd post it here anyways though so that no one got mad at Zbrush when trying to use it, hehe. ;)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083190720tne.jpg

[reboren]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
-subtract 0,627 from that value .. this seems to be necessary because "no displacement" does not seem to be 0,5 in the provided texture, but 0,627 instead
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is important, why this value rray how did you derive it ?

[pooverfish]

Another vray test.

The displacement values here are

13.344 with -6.672 shift

These values are based on the displacment value given by pixolator and the autoscale value in the OBJ (use a text editor to open the file, it is in the header), there should be no need to guess this. I'll put up a zscript/maxscript combination to do all this automatically once I have put a simple interface on it.


http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083203207bud.jpg

[MDB101]

pooverfish!!! Hows the weather over there in Aussi! :) Its me Eugene at Frantic Films :) Everybody in 3d is trying to figure out the right way of doing this :) mabe yah can help us out again :) we got PRman and Vray up and ready. nice seenin yeah again.

[pooverfish]

Hey man, good to see you here :)

The weather is a damn site better than where you are, cooling down a bit although it was 32c the other day.

Not sure what the prman settings are, but the scripts I have should make it a snap to get the values right, at least with vray. The prman stuff should also be done by numbers.

I'll get them out this weekend and let you know.

cheers,
grant

[Zeddicus]

Pooverfish: Your scripts sound interesting, looking forward to them to make life a little bit simpler, hehe. Not fussy so I used a guesstimate for mine and was very close (basically just eyeballed it). Amount=+14 Shift=-7 ;)

[spidex]

scott,
how did u find out abt the value for alpha gain ? 14.. thats pretty darn high from the suppose 0.8

[moob]

.834 / .0625 not sure if thats the right way to do it but that gives the value :p

[Scott Spencer]

Spidex:

I just went with trial and error having experienced the fact the alpha gain value will increase the displacment I pumped it up and kept the offset locked at 1/2 that value. I then work my way down to a suitabkle render always keeping the offset and the gain proportinally locked.
Otherwise the model will "bloat"

Trial and error : )

Scott

[squeige]

Here`s my test for Mental Ray, I imported poly to maya rotated 90 degrees and scale to about .4
reason being is zbrush import/exports defaults on 4 so in my scene the object was too larger

then I converted to a subd surf and added a subd approx node, I don`t understand why all these tuts and all these people use a disp approx since to all my testing whenever u use a surf approx or a subd approx node it overrides it.
my settings where something like
1 to 4
lenght/distance/angle
2.5

approx rendertime 40 secs. with shadow maps and 2 other surfaces
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083214795aan.jpg

[squeige]

Ok heres a maya default renderer test
same procedure as above just no surf approx setting, the only setting that changes is feature displacement is off and sample rate is 32 and 16 accordingly, guys one more thing make sure u have wrap u and wrap v off and maya has a default filter for all textures if u leave it on ull loose some details in your map so just set it to 0
RenderTime 16 secs... :P http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083215399vgg.jpg

[Zeddicus]

squeige: Lot's of banding in that last one. I take it this is Maya your using? So now I've seen this phenomena in two apps other than Max. I don't feel so bad anymore, lol. Nice to know I'm not alone hehe. ;)

[squeige]

after testing the matter i found out its my bump map making all that banding, seems mayas default renderer sucks at bump mapping creates the banding effect, referred to as moire

[pooverfish]

For those experiencing stepping in the displacment map when using max and mental ray: try resaving the image as a 16bit RGB uncompressed tif file through photoshop.

If you check out the mental ray render messages it indicates that the .tif that came in the zip is not supported and it is passing the image as raw data: it looks like it converts it to an 8 bit format.

I resaved it to a tif format that it does support (as listed above) and it neither messaged that it was converting, nor rendered with the stepping that I was getting with the original tif.

cheers,
grant

[pooverfish]

Also, regarding converting from grayscale to RGB in photoshop: be aware that your colour profile settings may mean that the midpoint gray of the original grayscale image is converted to something other than 0.5, with the defaults I had it was visually darker and a -0.5 offset with the same displacement values used for vray was not rendering the same result in mental ray.

Once I had fixed my photoshop colour settings it then worked just fine.

cheers,
grant

[moob]

That seems to fix it :) converting to rgb though seems to change the neutral gray had to set the offset in max to -0.58

edit: nm you posted again ;)

[jotajota]

saludos..aqui va mi experiencia con lightwave 7.5 http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083220081vjr.jpg

[Zeddicus]

Hehe, just saw your post after asking about Max/MR banding in the other thread. FWIW, resaving in PS still gives the "format not supported / converting to RAW" error, so there is still banding as a result. I also tried both 16-bit greyscale and 16-bit color versions saved in PNG format which MR doesn't mind at all in Max, but still got identical banding to the uncompressed TIF. Like I said, not that big of a deal to me since I use Vray, but I'm curious and thought maybe I might be able to find a work around that could help folks stuck with MR. If only MR would obey changes to the blur setting like Vray does, then it would be problem solved most likely.

Edit: By the way, just thought I'd mention to all that if your renders (in any program) have a general mottled bumpiness in areas where it should be remaining smooth, then you more than likely are being bit by the banding gremlin too. I've found that certain settings can make clearly defined banding in one render, look like the bumpy surface of an orange peel in another (yes, the Lightwave post above mine prompted me to mention it). Converting to 8-bit instead of using 16-bit can do it for example. So can certain blur settings. Hoping this info helps you all get better renders in the future.

[ghopper]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Posted by Matthew
I was able to almost completely eliminate the banding caused by C4D's insistence on reading it as an 8 bit image. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Matthew,
did you try to convert the displacement map to RGB. If you then load it into C4D it shows up as 24bit. Don't know whether it will make a difference though.

Also I tried your suggestions to use the blur settings, but it blurs out the finer displacement details too much I think.

Hopefully we can eliminate the banding soon and achieve the same displacement quality as Pixolator's image ;)

[wierdPal]

squeige could I trouble you to post some screen shots of the process using default render in Maya that is similar to the ones cornel did for C4D 8.5 on the first page of this thread?

[Zendoftheworld]

Hi Zheads,

Here's my test - rendered in AIR Renderman renderer.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083240928dlr.jpg

Using the same technique as per some of my previous tutorials and article featured in Highend Magazine Issue's 3 and 4 (http://www.highendmag.com)


Best regards,
Zendoftheworld...

[MrBraun]

Rendered with Cinema4d 8.5 !
Saved displacement map to 8 bit not compressed and flipped vertically!
Hypernurbs render level 5.

Displacement 0.6m with Filter:
Brightness: -2%;
Contrast: 94%

Shader Oren-Nayar, rendered with Defaul Light no shadow!

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083243191tja.jpg


Tnx Pixolator for this tread !! ;)

[somlor]

Quick AIR test:
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083241600jax.jpg

Workflow:

1. Download and install Liquid Maya plugin
http://liquidmaya.sourceforge.net/

2. Download and install AIR demo
http://www.sitexgraphics.com/html/air.html

3. Download Olivier's normalmap_displace.sl and compile it for AIR
http://www.drone.org/tutorials/rayDisplace_renderman.html

4. Import .obj into Maya. Select mesh.
Liquid>Attributes>Add Subdivision Surface

5. Set up render preferences with Liquid>Render Globals, position camera, add light(s) and render.

6. Open .RIB that was created in text editor and add:

# This determines the dicing rate for true displacement. The smaller the number the higher the micropolygon count.
GeometricApproximation "flatness" [.2]

# This turns on true displacement
Attribute "render" "integer truedisplacement" [1]

# This is the displacement bound giving the maximum distance the surface will be displaced. It seems that the ZBrush displacement gain # works nicely here.
Attribute "displacementbound" "float sphere" [.85]

# This applies Olivier's displacement shader to your object. Km is the displacement multiplier which you need to experiment with. I think I may have jacked it up a little too high.
Displacement "normalmap_displace"
"float Km" [5.5]
"string displace_map" ["DispTestHead_Disp16.tif"]

6 minute render time on my very slow Athlon with 768 ram and a zillion apps open at once.
:rolleyes:

[mondeo30]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083244820qmu.jpg
Here's another render done in xsi, see the detail it get....

[somlor]

Some more AIR tests revealed persistent banding issues, particularly around the neck.
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083252492skx.jpg
I seem to remember having some trouble with Olivier's shader in the past. I think it works better with a displacement AND normal map. Zendoftheworld, do you mind sharing what shader you are using and your settings? Is your shader capable of more detail? There are subtle details washed out in the render you posted.

[Atog007]

mondeo30, can you tell a little bit more about your setting, and specificaly the render tree ? i simply can't manage to get a good looking displacement in xsi (are you putting any intensity node ? change range ? wich value and were frome they wer derivated). Thanx a lot.

[andyS]

Realsoft3D 4.5/sp1 test

1.convert map to 16bit PSD
2.create Surface_Geometry shader(see pic)
set Bump Height to 1(important)
refit it to range -1 t0 1
adjust with linear vsl object
3.set Max. Displacement(for sds) to 0.17(max value in this map)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083264276psu.jpg

[aurick]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083222163sdb.jpg

Here are my own results with Cinema 4D 8.5

I was able to almost completely eliminate the banding caused by C4D's insistence on reading it as an 8 bit image. Here's how:

Displacement Height 0.8 m
Texture Filter with SAT sampling at 2.5% Blur Offset and 2% Blur Scale. Contrast is set to 95%

[moob]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083222712woe.jpg

No banding converting to 16-bit rgb tiff works i could swear i tried it before and got banding though tried so many different image formats. :p

Rendered in 3dsmax with Mental Ray

[pooverfish]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> No banding converting to 16-bit rgb tiff works i could swear i tried it before and got banding though tried so many different image formats. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you tried any tif with compression in the past that would break it, mray is pretty picky about what formats it natively supports.

Glad it is working for you.

cheers,
grant

[marciani]

Hi all.
To Jotajota: Check your post
Thx
Bye
Leo

[ghopper]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083224626xnj.jpg

Thanks for the files Pixolator. Here are my results for Cinema4D 8.5. Pretty much followed cornel steps ( thx for the instructions ).

The only thing I did differently was, I loaded the displacement map in Photoshop and saved it out again as 16bit, because Cinema was reading it as 8bit before.

Displacement Height: 1cm
Sampling: MIP
Contrast: 89%

[policarpo]

C4D 8.5

converted the zBrush displacement map to an 8bit image in Photoshop and saved it as a .PSD.

Added a filter and increased contrast to 95%, and the height of the displacement is .8m

Just wanted to show a comparison between 4 and 5 Subdivision renders.

Cheers, and thanks for all the insight fellas!

displace3.jpg

And here's the file if anyone wants it.

http://www.policarpo.us/samples/displaceHead.zip

[Eddie The Pirate]

rray could you post your scene file. My friends and I are not getting it to work in XSI :(

[Zeddicus]

Ok, now I'm getting good renders with Mental Ray in Max without too much banding. I don't know what the problem was yesterday. I kept converting the 16-bit greyscale image to 16-bit RGB, and then resaving under a new name with no compression and no embeded profile. Yet Mental Ray would keep yelling at me that the format wasn't supported, convert it to RAW, and promptly render the model with lot's of banding. I decided to try it one more time today before giving up, since moob managed to get good results. And here it is:

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083275102ola.jpg

Not quite as good as my Vray renders, but passable I think. Still looks like there may be some banding around the neck area like others have seen in their renders using other apps. I'm still wondering if the ability to get Mental Ray to obey the blur setting in Max may help with this. Oh well... :rolleyes:

[HaDDeS]

XSi 3.5

Hi everybody, here are my test on this scene
thx a lot for the files Pixolator.

- Tiff converted to RGB and flipped VERTICALY
- Plugged in a change range remaped to -5,5
- plugged a bit noisy version of the tiff in the bump slot
- Geometry approx,displacement set to "2"
- Subd level2

I'm not sure to get what Rray discribed but for the moment it's coming nicely to me, ill try to improve it.
Cheers,
-- HaDDeS --
disp4.jpg
disp3.jpg

[KenH]

Here's one done in Animation Master. It only accepts 8 bit images and doesn't have subpixel displacements yet. You also have to up the strength of the displacement to see it as in Zbrush.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083275842dzm.jpg

[nimajneb]

3DS MAX, Scanline

OBJ file to Editable Mesh.
Meshsmooth, 1 Iteration
Collapse to EMesh
Set Sub-D Displacement, Medium Preset (High Kills it, on my box)

Set material Bump and Displace same map (instanced). Set level to 100, and instead, change output to remap iamge from -.5 to .5. Set overall output to taste (I did the reciprocal of .834, 1.2 approx).

45 sec to render.

max_head.jpg

[rray]

@Eddie the pirate: I've just updated the exact settings in XSI over in the other (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001513) thread

[MrBraun]

Another Try..

Saved displacement map to 8 bit not compressed and flipped vertically!
Hypernurbs render level 5.
Displacement Height 0.5 m
Texture Filter with SAT sampling
Blur Offset 2.5%
Blur Scale 2%. (Tnx Aurick)
Contrast is set to 94%
3 point light and shadow.


http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083282962jlw.jpg

[Eddie The Pirate]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083283447lli.jpg

I followed HaDDeS example only I used a Blinn. I didn't change the map at all for the bump but I did have to set it to about 40. I'm interested in if the D3 Normal map will work well with this. Does anyone know of another file format that Mental Ray would accept so we don't have to convert the map to RGB. This would make this process so much FASTER at render times.
:D

[YMO]

my test
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083283882pnp.jpg
10x rray

[MrBraun]

Just the last try:

Saved displacement map to 8 bit not compressed and flipped vertically!
Hypernurbs render level 5.
Displacement Height 0.8 m
Texture Filter with SAT sampling
Blur Offset 1.5%
Blur Scale 1.5%. (Tnx Aurick ;))
Contrast is set to 94%
3 point light and soft shadow.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083284305mox.jpg

[Reactor]

Finally got something working in Poser 5, by inversing the .tiff for the negative displacement. It's not too bad at the job, but banding cropped up when I pushed the displacement out a little further. Not bad for a 5k poly model, though ;)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083300107mgi.jpg


Later edit:

After some more tweaking, I managed something far more respectable. I now looks a lot more like it should.


http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083318842mbm.jpg

[slow]

Did a quick test with Blender and the rib export blenderman python script. works like a charm with the Air demo and the Olivers NormalMap_Displace shader, rendered out this image in just under 2 minutes on an old 1ghz athlon with 512 of ram. http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083301887spt.jpg

[marciani]

Hi all,
One question: nobody use Lightwave here???
Only jotajota?
hope someone use this soft, and show some workflow, (i'm too busy and lazy to try myself :D )
Bye
Leo

[cwahl]

Cinema 4D art 7, using MrBraun's stats:

I'm happy to see it works well.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083326618akr.jpg

[nimajneb]

Seems to me that a lot of the bloat were seeing is from an incorrect mapping of the bitmap to all positive displacement. In my tests I shifted the range on the bitmap from 0 to 1 to -.5 to .5, and achieved better results (in MAX). It'd be interesting to see the different applications tabulated together to see if this carries out.

[Zendoftheworld]

Another test....

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083327453jhc.jpg

When ZBrush exports an OBJ, by default, it scales the object by a factor of 4, so I used a displacement scale of 3.34 (0.834 * 4) and this works well.


Regards,
Zendoftheworld...

[MINg120]

rendered with Prman,use less than 16 seconds,so good!
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083335349xmj.jpg

[wurger]

Rendered in Max 6.

Meshsmooth, 3 iterations
Displace modifier

Displacement map levels adjusted in Photoshop.

Displacement map rotated 180 degrees on "U" axis in Mat Editor http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083336868iyo.jpg

[reboren]

MINg120 i dont think you have it doing true displacement, just bump mapping.

[uggugg]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083339133hua.jpg


What an impressive model!

Here is my version, also rendered in cinema
4d 8.5 with the settings mentioned earlier
by cornel and ghopper (disp 1m). I have
rendered the the head with radiosity with
settings shown in the image itself.
Looks nice but i'm not happy with it.
Will try another version with an 8bit image
later. Thx for this model!

[Zeddicus]

wurger: Those are really nice renders. You mention using the displace
modifier. Was that used in both renders, or did you use the
displacement shader for the Mental Ray one?

To all: Still seeing lot's of banding in some of the examples posted here,
like I used to have in Max. Particularly in the C4D ones. Nothing that
probably can't tweaked out I'm guessing. Just thought I'd make an off
hand comment about it (again, I know hehe). Keep at it all! :D

[stew]

My result in Poser 5:
p5_disp.jpg

Poser's subdivision algorithm is not the catmull-clark algorithm, therefore the shape is not exactly like the original.

[wurger]

Zeddicus,

Both renders use the Displace modifier. I posted them because the Mental Ray render seemed a bit more detailed than the scanline rendering.

I attempted using the Mental Ray displacement but got nowhere (didn't have time to mess with it too much...I was at work after all). I had even less luck with Final Render but wasn't in the mood to try and figure out why the Micro Triangle Displacement in Final Render wasn't working.

[Reactor]

Stew, I appreciate the quick mention of why the shape is a little different.... although I'm not sure I agree that means you can't get it looking the same. See my renders in Poser on page 5. The second one looks almost exactly as it did in Zbrush. I'm still curious about the banding though, when you increase the displacement to 2.5.

[policarpo]

A little more exploration.

Just wanted to see what it looked like with dramatic lighting.

still not 100% perfect, but passable...

This is fun, thanks again for offering up the model Pixolator. It really helps to determine if zBrush will work with our rendering engines.

So far, my LW tests have been unsuccesful. :confused:

displace_c4D.jpg

[koye]

policarpo set your subpatch tessalation to BEFORE the displacement object modifier!

also the remember the display tessalation can be way lower than the render tessalation.

it is the order that is of extreme importance

:D

[NilreMK]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083360685klz.jpg

3dsMax scanline
Rendered in 11 seconds on a 1.8ghz
With 17 lights, all casting 1024 shadowmaps.

I'm cheating though. The details are from a normal map, they arnt real polygons. I'm only rendering 5440 polygons.

[policarpo]

having some more fun, this time with instancing.

woo hoo!

C4D roxx!

rendered on a 1ghz PowerBook with 768mb RAM.

I'll wait to do a GI test on my Dual 2.8 XEON at home.

displace_instancing.jpg

[Fouad B.]

Dual Xeon... :: (faint)

[policarpo]

gi_animation_18m53s.jpg

[stew]

Reactor:
What exactly do you mean by banding? If you get holes in the mesh, then you need to increase the displacement bounds. If you see polygon edges, that are artifacts of the different subdivision schemes.

In any case, you should add a math node that subtracts 0.5 between the displacement map and the displacement channel, otherwise the head gets "inflated".

[Flo]

another image rendered with AIR.
took 2:49 on an Athlon 1400

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083424199mbs.jpg


@MINg120: seeing your image i guess you've subbed 0.5 and resaved the texturemap. that's why your image looks not right cause you only have pos. displacement cause all the neg. values felt below zero and weren't saved in your texturemap. at least that's what bugged me first and made my images look quite identical to yours.

[somlor]

Slow and Flo: Those look great. Are those defaultsurface? I'm just curious because you don't appear to be having the banding issues around the neck and I'm wondering how you achieved that. The banding didn't show up until I started rendering with shaders that calculate specular.

Zendoftheworld:Are you also using normalmap_displace.sl?

[triztan]

hi,
i saw examples of 3dsmax using mentalray in this thread. the only thing missing where the settings. so if you are so kind to post your settings for mentalray in 3dsmax i will be very happy.

my own tests showed only an "inflated" head with a rough noisy surface. and the rendertimes where beyond on my dual xeon 3.2 ghz computer.

thanks for any info,
daniel

[Zeddicus]

Max 6 + Mental Ray

- Displacement map flipped vertically and resaved in Photoshop as 16-bit RGB TIF file, no compression, no color management applied or embedded profile.

- Map loaded into material editor slot as bitmap, blur 0.01 (doesn't seem to matter with MR which ignores it, but good habit anyways to prevent banding if you use another renderer such as Vray), RGB offset -0.5 (map will look black, but it's not really and negative displacement is still there). By the way, if you didn't flip the map in Photoshop, set V tiling to -1.0 so that it renders properly.

- Using a second slot in the material editor, I applied a standard material with mental ray displacement shader unlocked (see heading mental ray Connection near bottom) and displacement map instanced as the extrusion map. Object Independant: checked / Displacement Length: 1.0 / Extrusion strength: 12.0 / the rest at default.

- For render options - View: Checked / Edge Length: 1.0 (higher speeds thing up but lowers render quality, lower setting slows things down but improves render quality) / Max Displace: 15.0 / Max Level: 6 (play around for best speed to render quality ratio)

Note: If you get a log error about your displacement map, make sure it's a proper 16-bit RGB TIF as stated above. 16-bit greyscale works, but gets converted to RAW and also is more likely to show banding.

The render posted previously in this thread (render time 1:40 at 640x480 / default render settings used except for those that were displacement related / two omni lights using shadow mapping):

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200404/user_image-1083275102ola.jpg

[MrBraun]

Just the last try:

+ Saved displacement map to 8 bit and flipped vertically!
+ Hypernurbs render level 5.
+ Displacement Height 0.7 m
+ Texture Filter with MIP sampling
+ Contrast is set to 95%
+ Default light (no shadow) and MODEL SCALED 4X !! :)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083451168qyh.jpg

[Zendoftheworld]

Hi Solmor,

Quote: "Zendoftheworld:Are you also using normalmap_displace.sl?"

No - I am using a standard displacement shader.

Regards,
Zendoftheworld...

[tjaden]

Been awhile. nice to finally get some time to get to grips with Z2. here are some tests. i found vray to be the most effective at micropoly displacement. only requiring 1 meshsmooth iteration. i found mental actually quicker if using the displce mofifier rather than the mental ray connnection displacement in the Material editor.

these are the settings that produced the best results in terms of time/quality for me from each renderer.

also thank you pixolator/pixologic for another amazing leap forward in all areas of the app. hope to have more time available soon to spend on Z2 and do some wips
:) :) http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083467757lnr.jpg

[reboren]

max's scanline renderer is surprisingly quick!

[CptSuicide]

A question for VRay users:
Every time I render, I get those tiny black dots (I think they are small holes). They seem to be visible on the UV seams but why doesn't anyone else have them. Well this thread is so huge I might have missed it if this has already been answered. Heavy antialiasing hides most of them, but that takes so much longer to render. Any ideas?
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083497678vhv.jpg

[Fouad B.]

are you used 2d or 3d mapping?

the 3d mapping is little bit slower but the mapping more precise.

[thev]

Here is an image rendered with a more recent version of VRay; 3d displacement method, two raytraced lights and GI:

zbrush.jpg

I had to write a small 3dsmax plugin that will map a texure exactly in the way zbrush appears to do and without any extra filtering (the standard filtering in 3dsmax seems a very bad choice for this particular task).

Here is a link to the original high-res image:

High-res image (http://www.vrayrender.com/stuff/zbrush_large.png)

Best regards,
Vlado

[Zeddicus]

Hi Vlado! Just saw your news on the official Vray forums and popped over here to post about it, but it seems your really on the ball already, hehe. Most excellent news and great support as always! Many thanks from me and I'm sure a good many other Vray users! This is exactly why Vray is well worth every penny. ;)

tjaden: Have you tried lowering the blur setting to 0.01 for the displacement map (in the material editor)? You'll probably get a slightly better render than the one posted.

[Flo]

another test with 3delight:
image-res.: 500x715
rendertime: 6 secs. (Athlon 1400)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083582568ena.jpg

[galenb]

I missed something... What VRay news?!

-=GB=-

[Snothasen]

Attention SkyCastle!!

could you please elaborate on your settings and shaders used with you 10 sec. prman render?. I've managed to make mr in maya render a nice output (with the settings and workflow of scott spencer)..but not as of yet in prman, despite some close calls and quite a few misses..

web page (http://www.nerving.dk/zbrush_head.jpg)

mental ray render above, settings had to come up sligthly imo, and in difference to scott spencers i had to lower the alpha offset to -8..or the result was slightly bloated?

Cheers

[arek3d]

after almost breaking this computer to pieces....

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083626783coa.jpg

[xsi_sa]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083648229inw.jpg


this is my attempt in 3.5.1... i am having real issues in version 4.0. same setup but tottaly messed up renderings. Anyone please post those issues in a new thread i made.

[xsi_sa]

Nevermind it works with 4.0 my mistake on the settings

[nlloyd]

For the renderman tests that i did i first had to convert the tiff from the comand line to keep the image 16bit (txmake -float file.tif file.tx) this made the steps go away. The second part is to use a remap node between the displacement node and the image file node with a new min val of -.5 and a new max val of .5. This will put the 50%grey back on the normal.
As the file node will be a float make sure that you use the red chan as the default is set to alpha. Hope this helps

[creed]

After a good few hours playing around with Pixolator's demo file, it suddenly struck me why it seemed to be so difficult to get a good result out of C4D.

The displacement file supplied is set to have 50% grey as a base point, while white is 'high' and black is 'low'; C4D's displacement works on black as the base point, and the range--going up through grey to white--indicates higher points. So no amount of messing with constrast, gamma, etc. will actually give the correct results.

To test this, I did the following:



I then used the displacement map filter, with constrast, gamma, etc. all at the default settings, but using the clipping values to only use the values of 50% to 100% (mid grey to white). Displacement set to 8.34m (taken from the source thread as the displacement-gain of the map), and at 100% strength, this gave me a render with the 'high' displacement areas.



Same again, but clipping the values from 0% to 50% (black to mid grey), gave me the 'low' displacement areas.


Then, by combining the two (fairly roughly, I admit) we get the combined, 'correct' displacement.



This is, IMHO, a much better match to the intended look. (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=015376)

Until C4D does displacement from a 50% base, displacing up and down in one go, or we get a map out of ZBrush that is from a black basepoint, C4D will never be as accurate as some of the other renderers.

Sounds like a new displacement plug-in needs to be written :) Anyone?

[BazC]

Creed - ZB2 is capable o producing seperate +ve and -ve displacement maps. I would think best results in cinema would be achieved by adding two mats, one to displace outwards, one to displace inwards?

I can't see Maxon changing the system to work in both directions from a mid grey even though that's what everybody else does! LOL - Baz

[creed]

Would it be possibel to get this map in a +ve and -ve version, to see if it is any better?

Now I need to figure out a way to make it easy to combine the two renders so you can't see the join. It seems like some sort of alpha-channel derived from the displacement map is a good way to go...

But yes, it would be nice if C4D did displacement maps with 50% grey as base.

[BazC]

Pixolator said in another thread that he would post some more models for displacemnt tests. I requested seperate +ve and -ve maps for cinema users so hopefully he'll find time to produce them for 1 or 2 models :) - Baz

[creed]

Turns out you can get a fairly good result with mixing textures and creating a +ve and -ve map by inverting and clipping the supplied map...



Rather than explain what I've done, I've put the file up here. (http://www.creed.co.uk/forums/cgtalk/C4D_ZBrush_Test.zip) (If anyone else wants to host this, feel free.)

[BazC]

Thanks for the files Creed! I assume you did this in Photoshop or similar app? I'll have a go at this myself but I'm not sure how to go about it so if my experiments don't work out I may get back to you! :) - Baz

[creed]

Yeah, I used Photoshop to invert the second version of the displacement file (for the low areas), and re-save both as 16-bit PNGs, which seemed to work better in C4D. Other than the re-save and invert, I did nothing else to the files at all. The render above is straight out of Cinema, with no post-processing at all.

Any image-editing program (e.g. GIMP?) ought to be able to do what you require.

[Flo]

c4d is not the only program used by the people here which uses 0 as "midpoint". renderman also uses 0 as midpoint. but due to the rsl it's not such a big problem for renderman-users to adopt and use maps which use 0.5 as midpoint.

[Snothasen]

I played around with the displacement map some more using Renderman/Rat 6 in maya, and found that using a Combine Displacement shader with a base value set to -.5 would do the trick.

prman image here (http://www.nerving.dk/zbrush_prman.jpg)

[BazC]

Thanks for the info Creed!

[Dewey]

I'm not sure if you guys are aware of this, but you can just reload the supplied displacement map as a ZBrush alpha and apply a positive and negative curve by loading the appropriate .ZCV file in the graph. You can probably alter it to have a black starting point as well. Just make sure to have the ep ( Export Processed Alpha ) button checked when you save out the modified version(s).

[Continuumx]

Thanks Creed for the quick idea on splitting the displacment map into two parts.

I was working on a parallel effort to get the detail using high freqrency bump map and low frequency displacement map. The fact that I was only using half the information kept me from getting acceptable renders.

What I have done is combine your effort with a split bump map materials. I basically took the original displacement map that pixolator provided, then gave it more contrast- about 20%, resaved the image as a +bump map png image file, then inverted this image to get the -bump map png.

I then created a +, and - bump material, using cinema's filter shader the respective bump material's bump channel (no other options were checked) (flip it vertically, then follow creed's design for the +,- displacement materials.

I gave the displacemnt 6 inches, and ramped up the bump materials to about a strength of 175 postive for +bump and -175 for negative bump- put all 5 materials on the object, used default light - moved it a bit to light the object nicely and did a normal raytrace render no GI.

[creed]

Here's a comparison of the same model with 4 subdivisions, using the displacement map as a bump map for higher frequency detail, to the model with 5 subdivisions and no bump map.

http://homepage.mac.com/creed_nmd/.Pictures/CGTALK/subdivisons_and_bump (http://homepage.mac.com/creed_nmd/.Pictures/CGTALK/subdivisons_and_bump.jpg)

[maxx10]

Maya 6, mentalRay

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083777444gmu.jpg

[creed]

Continuumx

Interesting approach; should be possible to get a lot of detail and lower the required amount of subdivision in the Hypernurbs. My example uses a setting of 5; using the bump for high frequency detail should allow that to be lowered to 4, or even 3.

I'll revisit my file and see what I can come up with.

Does the bump channel also work on the 'black is low, grey is high, white is higher' scale, or is it 'grey is base, black is low, white is high'?

Might have to do some tests to check if we aren't sure.

If it uses 50% grey as the base point, you wouldn't need to make two bump maps, as you have to for the displacement.

[zepline]

displaced.jpg

Max 5 and VRAY

[stefans]

Rendered in Maya 5.01 with MR.
I only added a MRSubdivApproximation attribute to the polygonal mesh (Feature Displacement is OFF). The MRDisplaceApproximation
doesn't seem to do anything at all (like somebody already mentioned).
Alpha Gain: 40.000
Alpha Offset: -20.000
Sampling Filter: Lanczos (instead of Gauss)
MRSubdivApproximation set to Parametric;
with NSubdivs set to 1, 3 and 5 (from left to right). Anything over 5 crashes Maya
(memory exception...even with 2GB RAM !?!)
Anybody know why?

cheers

stefan http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083878223lgr.jpg

[Grub]

Since recently getting my Lightwave upgrade, I thought I'd test out the bump displacement feature which wasn't available in 6.5:

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083885609zcu.jpg

I used 2 surface layers in the bump map channel to get the displacement to look decent enough. One layer has the map with world co-ordinates active similar setup as Policarpo's (Cheers for the settings btw) which gives the bump mapping detail, and the other layer is the same apart from having world coordinates off, so the mesh displaces in size via the bump displacement distance.
Further insights appreciated from Lightwave users... :tu:

[KrisTaylor]

hey Stefans, im trying to use maya and mental as well, would you mind a more specific description of your process, like how do you set you shader up, I make a blinn, with create render node-displacement node, connect it to the shading group, connect a texture file to the displacement node(load dis texture here)

when I goto mental ray render attributes I dont even see a mrSubdivision approx, under Overrides/tesselation I only have Surface Approx and Displace Approx, I must admit I havnt used Mental ray much so Im pretty new to the commands, any help would be great, thanks!!

[ThE SP]

Hey,

Maya 5.01 with Mental Ray. I wanted to see how MR would handle multiple displaced objects. I scaled Pixs model down to that of Samis. Alpha Gain and Offset for Samis Model is .350 and -0.175 and for Pixs model .500 and -.250. The biggest thing I seam to notice is that Alpha Offset is about half that of the Gain. This took around 15 minutes. Both models are using the same Subdivision Approx node, settings are:
Spatial, Min Sub 5, Max Sub 7, Length 0.00 (Hmmm I thought that was set to .100)
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083959569srt.jpg
Thanks for the test files :D

**Edit**
Just did a test with the Length set to .100, makes no visible difference
**end Edit**
Cheers,
Shawn

[Forty]

Going to have a go at these by looking at your post on the other thread Rray!

[Frenchy Pilou]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1083983419sgb.jpg
First try with
Anim8or (http://www.anim8or.com/) :)
Standard regulates
Texture Bump 100
5 Secondes rendering in 2048*2048 (here reduced 50 % )
The Hight texture from Zbrush must be Flip Vertical and ehance in a drawing prog before loading
So I could make better :rolleyes:
Pilou
Ps
Anybody has made a try with this crazzy prog ?
Pss
After information
In fact the renderer has no micro displacement possibilities !
So you can just make a normal bumping !

[triztan]

here is one rendered in 3ds max 6 using finalrenders MTD.

3 photometric lights and nothing else added.

zhead.jpg

mtd settings:
resolution: 200
Height:4
Depth: 4
Edge Length: 100

and 1 iteration subdivided polymesh.

all the best,
daniel

[Zeddicus]

Triztan: Does final render see black as zero displacement and white and maximum displacement? If so, did you set RGB Offset to -0.5 when you loaded the map into the material editor in order to compensate? Just asking because your render looks a bit "ballooned" to me for some reason.

[maxx10]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> when I goto mental ray render attributes I dont even see a mrSubdivision approx, under Overrides/tesselation I only have Surface Approx and Displace Approx, I must admit I havnt used Mental ray much so Im pretty new to the commands, any help would be great, thanks!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you find it in Window > Rendering Editors > Mental Ray > Approximation Editor...

select your object and click on the create button :)

[pluMmet]

here's a FinalRender render 48 sec. I did adjust the map in photoshop a bit.

[Pizzaman]

It could be very interesting to provide us with a displacement map and a normal map of this mesh. We could then try to render it with a blend between the two methods, according to the facing ratio.

What do you all think of it ?

[Zeddicus]

Why not just load the model and map into Zbrush, apply the displacement map to the model, and then generate your own normal map from that? I did it a while back for another thread about normal mapping this mesh, worked good. Never tried blending them though.

[sadicus]

To simplify the process of finding the optimal workflow, I'm including a sample low-res head mesh with its calculated Z2 displacement map (step 1).

How did you generate the Disp Map?
Adaptive=on
or DPSubPix Level 4...?

[Pixolator]

Hi :)
I have added another downloadable test file (zip archive) to the top of this thread. Here is the ZBrush render of the files contained in the archive...

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084143250ywy.jpg

This test is provided because it's a very demanding displacement map. Since it requires a more accurate rendering, some visible artifacts in your test render, especially at the sharp edges of the blade, will be acceptable. Typically, mesh/displacement map combinations are less demanding, and artifacts (if there are any) are less likely to be noticeable.

If you need to modify the included displacement file to better fit the format expected by the external renderer (i.e., by splitting the map to positive and negative displacements, or by reducing the map depth to 8 bits), please specify these steps in your post. In the near future, I plan to write a ZBrush plugin which will enable you to specify a target application, and ZBrush will export the map(s) in a ready-to-use format.

-Pixolator

[evilemil]

hi grub,
would you mind posting some screenpics with your settings.
i fiddle with LW and do not get a decent result anywhere close to your picture.

thanks a lot,
Michael

[Zeddicus]

Tried all manner of settings and both models. Looks like Vray has a bit of trouble with the edges, just like Pixolator expected some renderers might. Hopefully Vray 1.5, which is going to be here very soon, will do a better job.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084179525mdn.jpg

[Zendoftheworld]

Hi there,

Here's my version:

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084181580fdy.jpg

Will post how to shortly - Survivor is on!!


Regards,
Zendoftheworld...

[leishen]

Why speed of download is so slow !!!!! :( :(

[Pixolator]

Zendoftheworld: I will upload a GUVTiles version shortly. (The quality of your render indicates that you probably no longer need it :))

Zeddicus: The sword mesh looks simple but - as described in the first post - is a difficult one to render correctly and therefor, it allows for better ( more accurate) feedback when you modify render-settings. You may want to try the alternate sword file which I will upload shortly.

leishen: The download-speed changes according to number of simultaneous downloads. Try again later, it should be faster.

-Pixolator

[Pixolator]

I have added an alternate GUVTiles version (with subdiv level 2 displacement) to the first post of this thread.
Hope this helps :)
-Pixolator

[Zeddicus]

There we go, the GUV version is a lot more friendly to Vray. Still a minor inconsistency along the edge in both 2d & 3d modes, but probably still good enough based on what I have to work with at the moment. Will be interesting ot see how well Vray 1.5 does when it comes out. From what I've read it sounds like the displacement part of it got a complete overhaul. Also will be interesting to see what everyone else posts over the next few days. Thanks for posting these and the fun thread Pixolator. ;)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084188501dpq.jpg

[maxx10]

Maya6 mentalRay, non GUV version

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084202523bxi.jpg

[leishen]

Hi!!!!there
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084203225psn.jpg

[pluMmet]

13 sec. FinalRender Stage-1
http://members.cox.net/plummet/Sword

SubDivision 50, Height 5, Depth 5, edge Lenth 50.

still got work to do but 34 min. is a bit much from leishens previous post
:p

[pluMmet]

same as before but 3 iterations on mesh and 7 depth and hight

35sec.

http://members.cox.net/plummet/Sworda

[Zeddicus]

leishen: Looks like your settings may need a bit of tweaking. From the looks of it your only getting positive displacement going on. Try loading the bitmap into the material editor (get map button > bitmap) and apply -0.5 as the RGB Offset.

Everyone: Hey now, no hiding the toughest part of the render (the blade). That's cheating. ;)

[zepline]

sword.jpg

Vray, GUV.. I used these displacement values (2.24, -1.12)

[Zendoftheworld]

Hi Ofer,

Can you please post a version of the sword that uses GUV Tiles?

The shader I have works best with this mapping method.

Regards,
Zendoftheworld...

[Dan B]

The Turtle Renderer representing...

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084221371zvd.jpg

[creed]

Cinema 4D 8.5.

http://homepage.mac.com/creed_nmd/.Pictures/Pixolator/sword_output
Image shows the first (harder) version of the map, with both versions of the object.

Settings as follows:

http://homepage.mac.com/creed_nmd/.Pictures/Pixolator/sword_settings

Because C4D reads mid grey in the displacement map as 0, we need two versions of the map: the one supplied, and an inverted version done in Photoshop.

These are loaded into 2 materials, and the Filter shader used to clip the used portion of each map to the appropriate 'half' of the data (the 50-100% clip).

Both maps are inverted vertically (the -1 Tiles in the Mapping dialog), and the Mix Textures set on both to ensure they both mix with the base material (which doesn't have Mix Textures on...)

The model is dropped into a HyperNurbs object, set to 6 subdivisions for the final render.

The displacement Materials also have Alias 1 Sampling, and -100% blur (because this is a still--for a movie this should be SAT (or MIP) and 0%).

The Displacement height is set to 8.58 (30 x quoted Alpha gain of 0.286) and 100%; the +ve map is set at positive 100%, the negative at -100%.

Other than having to invert the map (black to white), create 2 materials and clip both to the top 50%, and flip the mapping vertically, they work pretty well 'out-of-the-box'.

[Grub]

This is my try with the sword in Lightwave, using the GUVTiles version:

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084231865axw.jpg

As requested, here's a zip containing the LW scene file, the base model and tiny version of the map, this will hopefully get some of you wavers up to speed :D

Zsword displace.zip (http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_file-1084232080bdf.zip)

Important Note- Use the large displacement map from Pixolator's download, instead of the lo-res one in my zip. That's there just as an example. First though in photoshop or similar, adjust the levels of the map to something like [0, 0.25, 210], convert to 8 bit and flip vertically and save it out.
Then you should be able to match my render above. If anyone has any tweaks or developments it'll be great to see them. cheers :)

[bloontz]

Grub, thanks for the example! Instead of reducing to 8 bit I converted to .hdr in hdrshop. Seems to work well.

[leishen]

to Zeddicus :

Thank you for your instruction!

[jotajota]

test LW7.5 :tu: guv map http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084250518sdi.jpg

[Fouad B.]

Pilou >> pour animator fais:

Build > convert subdivided.
afin de lisser ton modele, avec le bump map tu obtiens un resultat meilleur.

[Continuumx]

Here is my entry:

I used the effort pioneered by Creed for
Cinema4D but added the following different settings:

Using Pixolator's Zsword file with GUV tile displacement map.

Lighting: Default Single Light, Raytrace render, NO GLOBAL ILLUMINATION.
For +VE:
Alias 1 Sampling
Blur Offset 25%
Blur Scale 5%
Contrast 15%

All other settings same as Creed

For -VE:
Alias 1 Sampling
Blur Offset 25%
Blur Scale 5%
Contrast -15%

I believe the opposite contrast values for appropiate displacement image is giving more pleasing detailed results.

[policarpo]

Hey Jotajota, is that actually displacing geometry, because it only looks like it's a bump map.


Looking sweet Continuumx, thanks for posting!

[Frenchy Pilou]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084267365tjh.jpg
Previous Post (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=015376&p=9)

Indeed Fouad !
But the advantage of the lowpoly size is losted :)
Pilou
free Anim8or (http://www.anim8or.com/) :)

[Fouad B.]

Pilou with each soft we must do the smooth by subdise before apply the Displacement map.

[Frenchy Pilou]

Hum hum : normal smooth and subdivise are not exactly the same :)
In the first number of facettes don't move, in second yes !
And displacement don't add facettes but just move it !
Am I wrong ? That's yet a little mysterious for me :)
Pilou

[Fouad B.]

yes.. and no.. but wrong anyway, for the both you must smooth.

[Frenchy Pilou]

So Smoooooooooooth to the infinite :)
Pilou

[Grub]

bloontz- yeah, converting to a hdr works much smoother than an 8bit map, cheers :tu:

I hope Newtek will fix the weird UV seam artifacts for the next point release... high bump map settings can hide them a bit in areas of detail, but that's no good for smooth areas. Low sub patch divisions reduce them also, but then you loose the displacement details. At the moment you have to pick the best trade-off.

[johto]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084310873ppo.jpg


Rendered with Maya 5+Mayaman+Prman 11.5

Texture was flipped, then converted to renderman's texture file .tx I used normalmap_displace.sl shader inside Mayaman.

Scene has one spotlight + Ambient occlusion.

Rendertime was one minute using P4C 3Ghz.

[WingedOne]

Here's a test that I did in Blender 2.33 with the GUV-mapped sword.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084314851hbi.jpg

Here are the steps that I took:

Step 1: Import ZSword_SDiv2_GUV into the ZBrush 2.0 alpha pallette.

Step 2: Press the FlipV button in the Alpha pallette.

Step 3: Export the tif alpha image as a *.bmp image.

Step 4: Download the *.obj importer plug-in for Blender at http://jmsoler.free.fr/util/blenderfile/py/obj_io_modif232b.py

Step 5: Open Blender 2.33

Step 6: Select the Text Editor view

Step 7: Load the obj_io_modif232b.py script

Step 8: Select "File -> Run Python Script"

Step 9: Press the "Select Import" button and browse to where you stored the ZSword_SDiv2_GUV.obj file

Step 10: Go back to one of the 3D view windows and set-up the sword, lights and camera how you like it.

Step 11: Click on the "Shading" button (the one with the little gray ball).

Step 12: Click on the "Add New" button in the material panel.

Step 13: Click on the "Texture Buttons" button (the one that looks like a leopard skin square).

Step 14: Click on the "Add New" button in the texture panel.

Step 15: Under the "Texture Type" bar select "image".

Step 16: Click the "Load image" button in the image panel.

Step 17: Select the *.bmp image that you exported from ZBrush

Step 18: Click on the "Material buttons" button (the one that looks like a little red sphere).

Step 19: Click on the "Map Input" tab and click on the "UV" button

Step 20: Click on the "Map To" tab and turn off the "Col" button and turn on the "Disp" button.

Step 21: Set the Disp value to 1.0

Step 22: Go back to the "texture buttons" button (the one that looks like a leopard skin square) and click on the "Colors" tab.

Step 23: Move the "Constr" slider under the "Colors" tab to 5.0

Step 24: Click on the "Editing" button and make sure the Sword model is selected (the wireframe should be pink).

Step 25: Click the "Assign" button in the "Link and Materials" panel, so the texture is assigned to the sword.

Step 26: Click on the "SubSurf" button in the "Mesh" panel.

Step 27: Set real-time sub-division to 1

Step 28: Set rendering sub-division to 5

Step 29: Render away!

[Zeddicus]

Regarding the sword and Vray displacement, Vlado had this to say:

"That particular scene (the sword) is going to have problems because of the sharp edges. At this point VRay does not support render time subdivision displacement (both smoothing and displacing a surface) which is needed to accurately repeat what zbrush does; usually this is not much of a problem if you subdivide the mesh once or twice, because the ordinary smooth normals will end up quite close to the normals of the limit subdivision surface. In the sword scene however, this approximation is not sufficient around the edges."

[Jyrki]

To add another dimension, I rendered an animated version of the displacement. Done with Realsoft 3D (just press record, change the time point and bump height, and render).

DivX http://staff.csc.fi/jyrki.hokkanen/head.avi
Mpeg1 http://staff.csc.fi/jyrki.hokkanen/head.mpg

Cheers
Jyrki

[MitchVFX]

I can't seem to download the Sword zip files--it goes slow and then gives up. Is there a mirror?

[Grub]

Looks like Lynx 3D has come up with the goods for us Lightwavers, take a look...

Lynx3D's Normal Displacement plugin (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=015456&p=4)

[subutex]

Just to test Lightwave settings. No need to have a plugin to perform Displacement maps. It works fine with the displacement tools integrated into LW 7.5 . The only thing, is to find the good setting, for each mesh.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084456825zfp.jpg

[lulu116]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084458435nls.jpg

I tested with xsi4 and mr3.3 and it behaved very nicely for me.
I had problems in the under lip but it seems to be a problem with the map , I have to check out.

settings :
subdivision level 2
using fine displacement , view dependant subdiv min0 max7 with 100% sharpness

render time :
length = 1 pixel , 2.2 millions triangles : 4min12
length = .25 pixel , 18 millions triangles : 8 min
(560/700pixels simple lambert shader, one spot light w/ray traced shadows AMD 2.6Ghz 2Gig ram)

I noticed some artifacts in some passes and I'm suspecting problems with the normals of the object.
would it be possible to have a normal map of this guy to be sure.?
I would be also interested to know from what subdivision level the displacement map was originally generated...

[jotajota]

amigo SUBUTEX...excelente render....si pudieras compartir la escena ..en un zip :tu: ..gracias

[Fouad B.]

Lulu you perfectly understand the exercice, processor, time rendering, setup all is noticed,
some here should read again the instructions...

[Mythopoeika]

Does anybody know if any of this is possible with Carrara 3? Thanks for any advice.

[Grub]

subutex, what? you used no plugins- not even the original normal displacement plugin... :D Can you tell us more about your settings? :)

[pixelp_pl]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084514597wnl.jpg

hello,
nothing more than a simply test, done with lightwave 7.5.
- uv map flipped (v)
- a little bit of photoshop manipulation (rgb conversion, curves and sharpness)
- 'pure' geometry (no bump maps, no tricks)
- 500k poly count
- a three shadow-mapped lights
- medium AA
- render time: about 40 sec. (p4 2.7g)
...and, clearly, big thanks goes to mathias wein, for his plug-in - normal displacement.
normal displacement plug-in (http://lynx.aspect-design.de/plugins/normal_displace_info.htm)
cheers
p.

[xtrm3d]

@ pixelp_pl , subutex

did you guys put the subdivision order on " first " or after "displacement " or something else ?


@ subutex
could you make yor setting availlable ?

how did you get ride of the uv seam displacement ?

thx for reply

christophe

[pixelp_pl]

hello xtrm3d ,
the subdivision order was set on "first"
cheers
p.

[Atwooki]

Gave this a quick run; here are the settings on Maya 5.0.1 and MR: http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1084760809jex.jpg

Map flipped vertically in PS.Saved as RGB Tif.
Displacement Settings: Presets: Fine View High Quality. Approx Method: Spatial. Approx Style: Grid. Min Subdivisions:1. Max Subdivisions:7. Length:0.250. View Dependant:Yes.
Subdivision Settings:
Approx Method:Spatial. Min Subdivisions:5. Max Subdivisions:9 Length:0.100. View Dependant:Yes
Feature Displacement:Off
Displacement File:
Quadratic. Alpha Gain:14.00. Alpha Offset:-7.00. Filter:0.000 Filter Offset:0.001
Three spotlights, main light with shadow mapped shadows.
'Production Quality' - 'Front Faces'
BSP settings: standard
Min sample rate: 0
Max sample rate: 3
Dual 3.06 Xeon 3GB RAM - 48 seconds - 960 x 720
Atwooki :)

[mjanov]

Hey pooverfish, wondering if you have put together a zscript/maxscript together. I find i'm always playing with the vray disp. modifier and it pains me to tweak as often as i do. thnx.

[jimmy_smitts]

@subutex

your render says 5k polys...is this the base mesh or are you setting your render subdivision higher. If you are setting the render level higher then display level, this is not really the number of polys - be honest! All LW users know, if LW has to subdivide on render to a higher level, then it reqiures to make a highrez version of it in memory (a.k.a. "updading geometry") which eats up memory fast.

Not like prman, it cost nothing - speed or memory.

What does the hair look like?

js

[jotajota]

:o

[KenH]

Is there somewhere to get the sword model? The links at the start of the thread never work.

[Ze_PilOt]

XSI + Mental Ray
image.jpg

Time for preparing the tessellation :

'INFO : "GAPM 0.2 info : created 15345
tessellation jobs from object ZBrushPolyMesh3D_PolyMesh_disp_248 in 2375.000 ms"

Total render time :
'INFO : "RC 0.2 info : wallclock 0:00:42.06 for rendering"

With a p4 2.5, 512 mb ram, and a very fragmented HD :)

Same method as Rray for the tree
http://www.xsibase.com/forum/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=11683

[modi]

i can't seem to download the head and the tif file. can someone post a mirror please,i'd really like to check this out.
thanks.

[cameyo]

I have tried to download these files many times...without luck :(
FlashGet don't work...
Normal download interrupted ...
Please, put these two files on a fast server.
Thank you.

cameyo

p.s. now 54 byte/sec :td: :td: :td:

[Lynx3d]

Btw, just added envelopes support to my NormalDisplace plugin.
Also up to 10 instanced per object should work now safely, although i'm not really sure if they pick up the geometry changes of the previous ones or the base object only.

Unfortunately old scene files will not load correctly unless you edit them manually.
That's due to a SDK limitation i should've known before i released the first version :(

So when will i see some models transforming between multiple maps? :D

[Mattoo]

Sweet! Nice work Lynx, once again you've gone beyond the call of duty.

You've also second guessed a great use of the technology, blending the displacement maps - genius.

[Decoder]

Can someone put the zip files on a better server. I cant download them at the moment, download fails everytime. Thanks in advance

[aurick]

We're currently modifying our servers to compensate for the popularity of the Angler movie. Please try again a little later today.

[JerryJang]

Still can't download the files...I've tried hundreds of times.....It always failed to download them.....anyone know how to download it?How you get these files..?if it is possible,please send me the file directly.....

[raymccalc]

I have the same problem, tried a lot of times ... :(

[ptr]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1085277236nnx.jpg

done in LW7.5, with normal displacement v1.1 & 16bit grayscale tiff for displacement & bumpmap. rendered with fprime radiosity.
ptr

[jotajota]

por fin ...Mapa a 16/bit/tiff http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1085292961egl.jpg

[Stijn]

...and another LW render... :)
(Hi Pete) http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1085406671pme.jpg

Sweet stuff!
-Stijn.

[mentalwarp]

Hi,
The server works perfectly, I had no problem to download the file, but anyway, you can find it here: http://www.mentalwarp.com/~moob/show/tmp/DispTestHead_TIFNG.zip

I use max6, but never suceed in any way to use these files, Sometimes nothing changes, sometimes the guy looks like if he has been prick by a thounsand bees. I anyone could send me a file were it works, with scanline or mentalray, I would be very thankful. My email address has not bandwith/size limit, so do not hesitate to send me big files if needed >>> brice@mentalwarp.com

Bye

[tumbleweed]

Hi! I am able to show you my results thanks to Zeddicus in the Questions about: Rendering ZBrush Displacement-Maps In External Renderers thread. I'm using 3dsmax 4.25.

Used the OBJ2Max import plugin with vertex scale at 1.0

Coverted the mesh to an editable poly

smoothness set to 1.0 and subdivsions iterations set to 3

added a displace modifier and choose the tif file as the map

previously in photoshop I converted the tif to rgb and 8 bit

in the displace mod settings vtile set to -1 and use existing mapping checked (VERY IMPORTANT!)

Luminance center checked but left at 0.5 and strength is set at 0.906" (not sure if this is where it should be)

Rendered with free version of vray with antialiasing adjusted to simple 2 level

Rendered at 600x800, 20 seconds

1.4 GHz Athlon with 512 MB of PC133 Ram

Very cool test!

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1085451276oim.jpg

[Sabotage]

THanks to Christian Nerving and extreme thanks to nlloyd for the fine details on making it correct in prman but I am using KB 10 the multiplier fo the displacement
this is too big but I cannot see the details with smaller values anyway thank you guys :))
rendered with RAT 5.5.1 http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1085492253tkb.jpg

[Ezekiel]

Sabotage awsome man what is the material you're using there m8?

[swampthing]

This is lightwave 8. Render took under 30 seconds.

Used lynx's plugin to setup displacement, used 12.5m and left the next setting alone at 100um.

Set render subdivision at 7. Probably could have gone a bit higher as the hair loses a little definition in a few spots, but not bad for lightwave i think over all.


http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1085540141qnf.jpg

[Arn]

swampthing

Would it be possible that you could post your exact settings for the displacement and the material and as well the changements you eventually made in the displacement maps.
By the way do you use the 16Bit Tiff loader plugin from Lynx.

Fritz

[swampthing]

The only changes i made to the tiff was to load it in photoshop and flip it and convert it to RGB. I downloaded the tiffloader, I assume i used it, can't find an interface for it so i'm assuming it's just a background plugin.

The material is just the default lightwave material, i didn't change it at all, same with the lighting, default lighting. That's it, that was all i did. The other settings i allready gave.

[Arn]

Thanks for the information

I use as well the 16 tiff loader, because I use the lynx deformation plugin plus a bump map for the fine details. When using the additional bump without the 16 bit tiff loader the bump is very bad. So I don't convert to RGB.

Fritz http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1085646394sqp.jpg

[Lynx3d]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I downloaded the tiffloader, I assume i used it, can't find an interface for it so i'm assuming it's just a background plugin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Image loader don't have or need interfaces. LW calls all available image loaders until one of them tells LW it could load the image.

Unless some other image loader did load it, it was mine. If the image editor tells you the image depth is 32bit then it should've worked. If it says 8 or 24bit some other image loader converted it to 8bit greyscale/RGB.

[Felix_Man]

I have a question about all this. I love the results I am getting but the whole subdivision surface thing can't be the only way to get this effect. For instance how the hell are they doing this level of displacement... and in real -time!!!

p_soldier.jpg

p_beast.jpg

p_bezerker.jpg

I know you can see the edges of the polys but just look at the detail. Maybe someone out there can write the equivalent of a pixelshader for displacement we might have better luck. Then again I don't understand how these things work and may be wrong about them using diff. methods.

Any ideas?


More images here (http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml)

[Game Master 770]

based on the outer edges, it looks to be a wonderful normal map. zbrush can make these for you in addition to displacement maps.

[Felix_Man]

So what is the deal with normal maps? Is there a reason they can't be used in combination with displacement maps? Seems like you would be able to get spectacular results from a medium res poly model using both methods, since you wouldn't have to worry about rendering it real time.


Maybe like a displacement map that falls of along the incidence angle so that it doesn't effect the edges facing the camera since the normal map would handle that...

I don't know just throwing ideas out.

[Thomas Mahler]

Maya 5 - Mental Ray

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1085936738iev.jpg

[Thomas Mahler]

Okay, so I'm getting there...

Maya 5.0, Mental Ray

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1085940316avk.jpg

[Thomas Mahler]

Sorry, I could not resist ;)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200405/user_image-1085941008eje.jpg

[travart]

"So what is the deal with normal maps? Is there a reason they can't be used in combination with displacement maps? Seems like you would be able to get spectacular results from a medium res poly model using both methods, since you wouldn't have to worry about rendering it real time.


Maybe like a displacement map that falls of along the incidence angle so that it doesn't effect the edges facing the camera since the normal map would handle that...

I don't know just throwing ideas out."

Basically the reason it's not done is people are too lazy to develop the process :D Innovative people like Weta will try new things like this and get great results but most people won't and just wait years for things to become mainstreamized for them :(

[Thomas Mahler]

@Pixolator:

I hope you don't mind that I took your model and created a little animation - I just wanted to see how the ZBrush Displacement Map would behave while the mesh is deforming - And I'm pretty much satisfied, make yourself a picture:
http://members.chello.at/roobie/ztest00.rar
(It's just a very, _VERY_ short test!)

Hope you guys don't mind that I'm throwing my stuff in here, but maybe someone wanted to see an animated face rendered within Maya/Mental Ray with the ZBrush Displacement Maps, although the animation is not really something great... ;)

[tworoniak3d]

Rendered in Cinema4D XL R7.3

Thanks to Trurl and Cornel for their posts. Once I adjusted the levels (contrast) of the displacement map in Photoshop, everything worked very smoothly.

Cheers!

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200406/user_image-1086795817hnh.jpg

[Trurl]

Other way in C4D ;) :

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200406/user_image-1086803238sej.jpg

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200406/user_image-1086803276jit.jpg

[kilik]

displacement for xsi if you can help me i try understand but it's complex :) :confused:

[Zenitor]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200406/user_image-1087759026dxx.jpeg
Blender using the same method as c4d, subdivision 3, 4 displacement texture channels 1.original, 2. & 3.original split 127up & 127down and 4)a voronoi to cover plato 8bit madness-gimp

[marcus_civis]

Rendered in Carrara 3.
You need the Anything Grooves plugin from Digital Carvers Guild.

1. Import the base OBJ file. On the import object select Vertex Primitives
and Create Single Polymesh.
2. Open the object in the Vertex Modeler.
3. Select Edit|Select All.
4. Select Selection|Smooth Edges.
5. On the Modeling tab in the Selection section, turn on Smooth and turn up
the Subdivision Level to your CPU and memory limits (I used 4).
6. Apply Anything Grooves, set the U and V
samples to 1 (so no new vertices are created). Other settings: Low: -0.5 High 1.25 but these may need to be adjusted to suit your map. If your subdivision is low turn on Smooth Angle to 10 or 20.
7. When you build the shader for the displacement,the map needs to be flipped vertically and the Levels adjusted in PS or similar (I used Auto-Levels)amd convert to 8-bit then import the displacement map to your shader, turn on Interpolate and set the Filtering on Summed Area Table or Gaussian Filtering. http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200406/user_image-1087918267gvc.jpg

[avmics]

Hi, I am new to xsi 3.5 from si3d any help would be greatly appreciated. I was reading the comments in this thread (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=015376)

can anyone provide step by step instructions re how to setup the following?

I have imported an obj file and I have a displacement map in tiff form that has not been associated with the model.


Render Tree:
1-convert image texture output to scalar
2-subtract 0,627 from that value
3-multiply by 10
4-plug into shader's displacement.

[yoyoloco]

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200406/user_image-1088543286ogq.jpg

Hi all. Well I didn't really have the time till now to try this out. Rendered with a simple displacement shader and matte surface. The shader was compiled using aqsl. The tiff file was converted using teqser to a tex.

The code was as follows.

Attribute "displacementbound" "sphere" [5]
Surface "matte"
Displacement "displace" "string displace_map" ["D:/DispTestHead_DispTC.tex"] "float Km" [1]

I guess the zbrush numbers are not nessesary here. Just the displacement bound needs to be high enough. This is not really enough, eight or so would have been better. The render was done with aqsis 0.9.2. on my old dual p2 with 512mb ram in about a minute and a half.

If you need any more info feel free to send me a mail.

:)
Jojo

web page (http://www.aqsis.com) null

[sibaz]

Rendered with mantra in Houdini, with a simple clay texture

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1088705507aqx.jpg

workflow:

1. Load model with a file sop - change upper case OBJ to lowercase obj
2. Reverse the primitive normals - or you could make the displacement negative
3. Scale down by 10. This makes the defaults for shadow bias work better.
4. Flip the image vertically to make it align with uv's
5. Modify the default VEX Displacement map to take grey as zero instead of black.
6. Apply the displacement shader and the clay shader
7. Set to render as subdivision, to slight improve quality you could set render quality to 2 - slows the render down somewhat though.

8. Up the displacement bounds to 0.2

9. Render

[fex]

another Houdini Mantra rendering:
http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1088798771odx.jpg

nearly the same base-settings like sibaz
used a oren-nayar shading with additonal specular...shadow shader for keylight
and some DOF

[JackMcRip]

@tworoniak3d: Very nice work :)
1. How long rendering at Sub=10?
2. In C4D you can different setting Sub for modelwindow and rendering?
3. Can you make a Photoshop-action to makes the Steps easier ?
3a. Here some Tutorials for Actions with Photoshop:
http://www.xkeys.com/resources/action6.php
or
http://www.pcquest.com/content/multimedia/103101101.asp

[JackMcRip]

I have the testversion of C4D V8.5
Its heavy nice Program !

But there is a Watermark on rendering :-(
I see good result by using Displacement and Relief !

I used the tutorial from the third post in this thread (!best thanks!).
First C4D Post. Its from "Cornel" !
Link - click here (http://www.pixolator.com/zbc-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=015376&p=1)


http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1088859330ecw.jpg

[Eddie The Pirate]

To Felix_Man:

I have written several posts about how important using normal AND displacement maps together is. Most 3D packages do not realise this. If they supply a normal map plug-in at all, It is usually designed to work only in open-GL renders. But the truth of the matter is that rendering animation is a lot tougher then rendering a single still image.
If you jack up the subdivision level on your model you may get a great STILL IMAGE but your machine will never render an animation in a realistic amount of time.

That is where the normal map comes in; It allows you to lower your Sub-Div level to a realistic number and still show all the details. ( USUALLY APPLIED WITH A 3RD PRTY PLUG-IN )With out BOTH the project will probably never finish rendering in our life time or will just run out of memory and crash.

[wigal]

Hi everybody!

Since i don't get a single vertex to move through displacement, could someone please advice exactly how to set up the scene and rendering in Maya 6 with the built in mental ray!

thanx in advance!

[dfaris]

"In the near future, I plan to write a ZBrush plugin which will enable you to specify a target application, and ZBrush will export the map(s) in a ready-to-use format."

Any word on when this plugin may be ready?

[Thomas_Helzle]

Rendered with messiah:studio 2.0 (http://www.projectmessiah.com/). Since messiah supports 16 bit greyscale images natively and has an easy to use MinMax node to "center" the values around zero (with settings of -1.0 for min and 1.0 for max), ZBrush displacements are very easy to import (it even has U/V-flipping buttons so you don't have to do that externally).
The rendering in 1024x1024 took 4.20 minutes on a P4 3.2 Ghz with 2pass "Enhanced" Antialiasing, Subpolydisplacement, MonteCarlo GI and a slight raytraced reflection of the environment.
The only problem are the errors in the displacementmap that are also visible when the file is reimported in ZBrush itself and used for displacement there... messiah is a bit more "unvorgiving" in this regard :)

Cheers,

Thomas Helzle

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1089554117mrx.jpg

[Gregory Glezakos]

Hello....
Here's a Messiah Studio 2.0 quick test.
6 min render with three soft ray trace shadow spots and maximum antialiasing settings.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1089586203lrx.jpg

Cheers,
______________________
Gregg "T.Rex" Glezakos
3D Artist

[aL3891]

well maybe this thread is dead.. but iäll post my little mental ray for maya 6 render anyways :) results look quite nice i think :)

heres what i did:
flipped map in ps
converted to rgb
saved to 16bit tif

loaded up the model ni maya and applyed the map
set the alpha gain to 8,34 (ie the zbrush disp. gain * 10)
set the alpha ofset to -4.5. this value was worked out by trying to set the alpha ofset as low as possible starting at -5 in this case and working upwards

disp. aprox set to finest hi qual. preset and the distance setting set to 0.025

subdiv aprox set to spratial min 4 and max 9 subdivisions and distance to 0.50

rendertime at production quality 56 secounds
on a 2700xp athlon w/ 512 drr333 ram

z.jpg

[wigal]

Finally!!!! Dont know if it's the complete resetup of the system or aL3891's setup...
but this time the displacemt worked...

additionally i tried to add a bone driven expression to see how the map would look alike... except the lazy skinning inside the mouth, and the fact the head wasn't modelled for such things in this region i find the result promising...

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1089895578wai.jpg

[bisenberger]

Max 5.1 and VRay beta 1.45.70


http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1089924380mze.jpg

[Nekro3D]

Good Displace Vray Beta!!
What settings??!!

[bisenberger]

Hi Nekro3D,
Here is a screen capture of the displacement settings. Shift by average has the same affect as the -.25 shift with this displacement map. I also used global illumination and one target direct light.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1090076358qqi.jpg

[Junk]

bisenberger could you post your scene?

I don't have the same result, I think it a scale issue wth the mesh and the units set up of Max

I test several times with this objet or personnal work and my result in Vray are far from perfect

[Gregory Glezakos]

Hello...
Here's another test, this time using Lightwave 8.

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1090161000ayf.jpg

Cheers,
_____________________
Gregg "T.Rex" Glezkos
3D Artist

[Gregory Glezakos]

And another one with Messiah Studio 2 again, but this time with some more surfacing on and a biger render...

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1090193144zul.jpg

Cheers,
______________________
Gregg "T.Rex" Glezakos
3D Artist

[Przemek]

Hi all I took me like 3 hours to read all the treads but I made it Still I cant get the head model to render right in my 3D MAX6
There was 2 replys with the instructions and I did it although it didnt work here is my screen as you can see I checked "Use exsisting mapping" although when I rotate the displacment gizmo I se the changes on the Head. What am I doing wrong how do I set up the UV's? also when i change the strenght of the displacment it eather inflates or colapses. http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1090198714atm.jpg

[devilbunny]

Don't you need to set V Tile to -1? And have you Meshsmoothed or otherwise subdivided the mesh?

[Gryphon]

With respect to Poser 5, EXACTLY how did you manipulate the TIF file to get it to work properly? Saying "invert" alone is not enough to tell me whether you inverted the alpha channel or the vert/horiz position.

Same question for LW 8.

Thanks!!!

--Scot

[Nekro3D]

Thanks! bisenberger...
Testing Now configs in vray beta, LoL!

[aL3891]

Ok no more guessing.. Here’s a way to calculate alpha gain and alpha offset at least for mental ray for Maya.. It should work with most packages though :) at least the way to calc alpha offset

Quick fix:
If you don’t need to understand what the problem is and how the solution works here’s the values in short

Alpha gain: (Alpha Depth Factor from zbrush * 10) * 2

Alpha offset: the negative (the inverse?) of half the alpha gain.

Example:
Zbrush Alpha Depth Factor = 0.834
Maya alpha gain = 16.68
Maya alpha offset = -8.34

An alternative to using this method is using the set range node and the multiply divide node.

Don’t change anything on the file node.
Connect the out alpha from the file node to the value x in the set range node
Use these settings for the set range node

Min: -1
Max: 1
Old min: 0
Old max: 1

Connect the outvalue.X from the set range to input1.x on the multiply divide node
Connect the outvalue.x from the multiply divide node to your displacement.

Now instead of changing the alpha gain when we want to scale the displacement, change input2.x value on the multiply divide node.

These methods will give you the exact same result but the one using set range is a bit less math.

Now for the ppl who just need to know (like me) :)

The reason ppl have been getting "bloated" result is because the midpoint or the "no displacement" color of maps made by zbrush is 0,5 or gray instead of 0 or black

THIS HOWEVER IS NOT A BAD THING

Why? Because when modeling in zbrush you are quite likely to push your model inwards, creating negative displacement. If we wanted to get these negative displacements into a map while at the same time having the no displacement color at 0 (black) we would have to have negative color values. This is not supported by any image format I know of. This is why the makers of zbrush have decided to set the zero displacement color to 0.5 or gray.

So what to do? Well you could split the map in one negative and one positive displacement map by using Photoshop to save out al the values above 0.5 to one map and the ones below 0.5 to another.

How ever this poses a new problem and that’s how to get to displacement maps onto a single object. I didn’t find any way to do this in Maya so another way had to be found.

Something that is less that obvious in Maya (and mental ray) is that the displacement node actually can displace negatively. If you want to see for your self add a displacement material without any texture and set the displacement to a negative value. The whole object will shrink.

So what we need to do is subtract half of the values that we got from the map, simple enough just set the alpha offset to -0.5 and you’re done right? Well kinda.

The way alpha gain and alpha offset works is the value from the map is multiplied by the alpha gain and then added to the alpha offset.

Example:
If the value from the map is 0.5,
The AG is 1
And AO is -0.5
The out value would be 0.

This is what we want. Gray in the map is now zero displacement. But what happens if we change the alpha gain?

0.5 from the map
AG is 2
AO is -0.5

(0.5 * 2) - 0.5 = 0.5

Woops.. Now gray in the map means a displacement of 0.5. When using AG of 2 we must subtract another 0.5 using the Alpha offset. So for gray to be zero displacement we have to set the alpha offset to -1

This means that the relationship between AO and AG should be
Alpha offset = -(alpha gain/2)

Now we have one more problem. Let’s say we have these settings
Value from map: 1
AG: 1
AO: -0.5

The out value will be 0.5 not 1. To fix this we double the AG and change the AO accordingly.
So:

AG: 2
AO: -1

Now we'll get an out value of 1 when the value from the map is 1, we'll get an out value of 0 when the map says 0.5 and we'll get an out value of -1 when the map says 0.

And that’s all folks ;)

http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1090241176jeb.jpg

[sadicus]

well my therapist will be dissapointed not recieving a check from me each week, but will be relieved not hearing about displacement map issues from ZB2 to Maya.

Thanks for the details!
I can't wait to try it out.
:)
:tu: :tu: :tu:

[Gregory Glezakos]

Well...
For LW all i did was load the 16bit TIFF in Photoshop, flipped it verticaly and re-saved as 16bit Tiff...
MessiahStudio2 have a "flip Y" option for textures...

Cheers,
______________________
Gregg "T.Rex" Glezakos
3D Artist

[Przemek]

Ok guys please help me :confused:
I have changed the map in photoshop to 16 bit RGB tiff anf flip it verticly.
You can see my settings in the picture.
What am I doing wrong? can any one give me the setting for basic render in MAX6 ??
and please be specific.

THANKs TO YOU ALL http://www2.zbrushcentral.com/uploaded_from_zbc/200407/user_image-1090266575hfh.jpg

[bisenberger]

Junk,
Here is a link to the scene. It will render quicker with GI off, but looks a lot cooler with it on.
http://www.arabian-archaeology.com/VRay/DispTestHead.zip

[nonsense]

...your using the wrong displacement. Look up "displace approximation."

[Junk]

thanks bisenberger
I sadly notice we have the same bug at the same place.
Border seams (visible above the eye)
Seems Vray is not able to render displacement map correctly or is it ZB exportation taht s bad?

[bisenberger]

Hi Junk,
Can you post one of your renderings and indicate the border seams. I don't notice them on the image I uploaded.

[JackMcRip]

Is there some new Infos about the Import/Export-Plugin?

Wow - Many answers.
I think many People want this Plugin :)

[X_M]

For LW users.

After experiencing a lot of issues with the 16 bit tiff file and contacting Lynx. I tried using Fusion to generate a 16 bit Open EXR image without letting Photoshop damage the file in any way,

I used the Open EXR loader for LW from Flay to get the image into LW as 16 bit.

The Open EXR file used as a displacement, bump displacement or lynx's normal displacement all produce spectacular results.

The settings required for all three methods are bascially upping the texture values respectively.

Currently Lynx's 16 bit loader cannot open a Fusion generated 16 bit tiff file, hence the need for another file format.

Marious S.

X

[JackMcRip]

Are there any News about this Plugin ?
Or maybe a surprise for siggraph2004 :-)

:eek: